he caught 115 passes! if he simply fell down after every catch he'd be among the league leaders. wes welker averaged nearly 3 fewer yards a catch and finished 9th overall in receiving yards because he had 111 receptions. johnson was 20th in YPC among receivers with at least 48 catches last year.
I agree with you here that for a receiver that amasses such gaudy numbers, his TDs are inordinately low, and I think there are a few different reasons for it. To me, the most glaring and obvious reason is that Andre is by far the most dangerous weapon we have, and since the field is drastically smaller in the red zone, defenses are able to key in on him easier, and that negates his ability to get separation. When you have the safety AND DB on you in a short field situation, it's pretty much impossible to gain any significant amount of space. Also, those other receivers have something AJ unfortunately does not have, and that's break-away speed. Johnson is a lot of great things, but one thing he's not is blazing fast. He has a great ability to catch the ball in small spaces, and he's got iron-clad hands, but he's never been the type of receiver to streak down the field and beat a DB step-for-step. Don't get me wrong, he's gotten his fair share of long completions, but those are due mainly to his route-running, and defensive lapses.....not his speed. And, to me, another major reason for his low TD numbers is simply the fact that the Texans have never really been an efficient red zone team. It's pure and simple. The more touchdowns you score as a team, the more likely your star players are going to have better red zone numbers.
I don't think AJ is a possession receiver. He certainly has the ability to burn people down the field. His YPC are probably lower due the team focusing on getting the ball in his hands as often as possible, and therefore they run a lot more short to intermediate routes for him. It is just the nature of the offense. The guy was a track star in college, so you know he has that kind of speed.
Like I mentioned, Andre is among the top in receptions of 20+ yards...therefore, stretching the field is something that AJ can boast about, with the best of them. Yes, his YPC isnt high, but thats because he plays so many different roles as a receiver, more so than almost every WR in the NFL. Out of Terrell Owens, Greg Jennings, Calvin Johnson, Randy Moss...none of them were leaned on as heavily as AJ. The closest any of them came to Andre's receptions is 35! (Greg Jennings) Yes, Andre caught so many balls because he is a possession receiver, but if Greg Jennings was asked to play so many roles as a receiver and catch as many balls in different situations as Andre, there is no way he could keep up his YPC. Jennings had exactly 1 more catch of 20+ yards than Andre and exactly 1 more TD. I dont see how he is any more of a game breaker than AJ. On the flip side, AJ caught 35 more balls. +1 for AJ. In the last 5 years, not one NFL WR had as many receiving yards as AJ had last season. It doesnt matter how you got there, but I dont see how someone who amasses so many yards isnt considered a game changer. Getting TDs is, many times, a product of the offense...not of the individual. There are many instances where a very average WR gets double digit touchdowns and there are other times where a game changer like Plaxico gets single digit touchdowns (6 seasons, excluding last season). Heck, Torry Holt, who has been one of the most productive WR over the last decade and had a chance to play in an offense that was the "greatest show on earth"...he had averaged 7.4 TDs per season. Why? Because his teams had enough talent where the TDs were spread around. I wouldnt call Holt a possession receiver either because he did average almost 15 ypc over that span. Isaac Bruce had even a higher YPC during his Rams days...but averaged just over 6.2 TDs per season. TDs or YPC from a WR dont necessarily equate to game breaker. It all depends on what role you are playing, the players involved in the offense, the efficiency of the offense, etc... Too much goes into it to just look at a couple stats and conclude, "game changer". Its one thing to say that Andre is a possession receiver, but one of the top 3 players in the NFL...but its another thing to say he isnt a game changer. He changes the game plenty.
There is no way you can say this when we won 22 in a row pretty much without him and still made the playoffs in one of the toughest western confrences in league history. Andre Johnson gets my vote. The rockets have proven that they can win without Tmac and can win without Yao.
The Rockets will prove this year just how (un)valuable Yao is to the team, and that his overall net production to the team isn't as good as people think it is. I'll say it again. I love Dre, but we can still be a top 10 offensive team without him with the other weapons we have to take his place. Andre Davis was awesome in his place. Take away Mario though, and you have a huge hole in your D-line.
Any Astros player on the Houston MVP poll is a joke. They are by far the worst professional team in Houston and will remain the worst professional team in Houston for many more years. The only player from the Astros that I would consider a MVP of Houston would be Roger Clemens because we made it to the World Series with him in the pitching rotation. My pick for Houston MVP is Andre Johnson or Chester Pitts.
The Astros have had the more success over the last decade than the Rockets or Texans...yes, the current team is not good, but that doesnt take anything away from what they have accomplished...at least compared to the other teams we have here.
Yes, and the Rox, anchored by Peanut Brittle and Johnny Glassjaw, are certain to set the world on fire this year.
i certainly won’t dismiss it, rezdawg, *but he caught 115 passes!* it’s nearly impossible to not accumulate a large number of counting statistics when you catch that many passes. except, apparently… TDs. but only 17% of his 115 receptions were for 20+ yards. fitzgerald – 21%; c. johnson – 27%; jennings – 26%; smith – 29%; d. jackson – 27%. only brandon marshall, among the top 10, had a smaller % (15) than andre johnson. what??? i’m sorry but what a bunch of hooey. what roles, beyond catching the football and blocking, do they ask andre johnson to perform? is he playing MLB, too? lord, man – that’s just silly. no offense, rez - but come on. let's not deify the guy. yeah - *jennings caught 35 fewer passes* – remember? so he was actually *more* productive than johnson. so +1 for johnson and his 115 receptions; + everything else to jennings for doing more with less. if fitzgerald had caught 115 balls, he would have totaled 1,714 yards; smith = 2,093; white = 1,805; c. johnson = 1,967; Jennings = 1,863. catching 115 passes is impressive. but let’s not confuse quantity with quality. (which is not to say johnson isn’t a quality WR; he most certainly is.) except… johnson has never finished with 10 or more TDs *ever*. that’s the difference between him and plaxico; burress has done it - quite a few times, irrc. in fact, all the guys i listed have done it. and you concede even “average WR”s sometimes fortuitously do it. and yet… johnson never has. not even once by accident. it’s an issue, rezdawg; it just is. he’s played 5 full, injury-free seasons…… so now you’re arguing johnson’s been surrounded by ’99-’01 ram-like offensive talent? but i thought he was asked to play multiple roles and do more than any other receiver in football? (and for the record, holt and bruce have both registered double-digit TDs.) minutae, perhaps, but i never made any comment about him not being a “game changer” – i would absolutely argue he changes a game. in fact, i said as much: andre johnson is absolutely a weapon; defenses unquestionably game plan for him and that attention undoubtedly helps open up the offense. he is definitely valuable; i would never argue otherwise. but MOST valuable……? this was initially about "value." i did state, along the way, that i didn't think he's a game BREAKER - a guy who breaks open a game by creating big plays and… you know, scoring TDs.
Wait, though--what percentage of an entire team's 20+ yd receptions went to each guy? What percentage of the team's receptions at all were 20+ yards? Doesn't the type of offense have some bearing on this, too? And the play of the QB and O-Line? (no statements here, just questions) It just *seems* that those stats, taken alone, present a pretty murky picture of what happened and they're screaming for some context. I've read through these discussions on multiple occasions, and I always come back to wondering what his play would look like under some other scheme, with a different set of circumstances. Not that I want to find out, mind you. As far as the TDs, I do have a couple questions which center around how much an affect the Texans near-incompetence in the red zone would have on their players' (including Johnson's) TD numbers: Generally speaking (on a league-average), what % of a team's TD happen from OUTSIDE the red zone? Of those, how many are the result of "game-breaking" receptions? Generally speaking, what % of a team's red-zone TDs go to WRs? And an unrelated bonus: is it a "game-breaking" reception if he catches and runs for forty-five or so, down to the 3, and they punch it in with the fullback? What I'm trying to gauge is whether AJ, in the minds of some, is being penalized for some weakness in the Texans' offense over which he has very little control. How responsible is AJ (and surely he has to be at least a little bit responsible?) that the Texans were flat-out incompetent in the red zone last year?
One more: is judging AJ solely based on TD numbers dangerously similar to judging Mario solely on sack numbers?
i'm certainly not judging andre johnson based solely on the # of TDs he's scored; not at all. i think he's a great player and a top (possession) WR. it's funny (to me) that people consider that to be an insult - he's (gasp!) a possession WR!!! i don't mean it to be damning in the least; he's a valuable part of this offense. MOST valuable...? eh......... and i know it's not all his fault (the lack of TDs) - but you can't use all these counting stats as a means to define him as a player and then ignore the single most important counting statistic out there, imo. (ps mario has 30 sacks in 3 years to johnson's 33 TDs in 6 years - i'm just sayin'...)
Granted--but you *are* excluding from the company of others based almost entirely on TD numbers. *Almost* entirely. The other thread of discussion raises another question: If those other guys *really* were to have that many more receptions than they did (up in AJ's territory), would their other numbers *really* stay precisely the same? Are there really that many "game-breaking" receptions to go around in a given football game? Tack on 35-40 more recpetions for each of these other guys, and the lion's share of those receptions will likely fall somewhere between dink-and-dunk and 8-15 yard plays. Not many of those become TDs, either. So, the next question, then, is: does it lie at the feet of AJ or his coach/offensive scheme? I've seen it argued before that AJ doesn't get YAC a whole bunch, and because of that he's not an elite WR or a "game-breaker". Looking at the inverse of that--how many times have you seen an AJ reception and thought, "damn dude, why didn't you get five or ten after that? or at least three???" I'm asking the question having no idea how you'll respond, by the way--and I don't have an opinion on it myself. Just agenda-free questions. And, my questions are outside the context of the whole "is AJ the MVP" thing, too--I'm just wanting to read your responses. meh. I love 'em both.
whooops -- horribly worded. Please allow me to rephrase; it's completely unintelligible what I was asking (sorry!). I'll assume those second numbers are extrapolated directly from YPC. Now, my question which I intended to ask: If these guys have 115 receptions, do those percentages or 20+ yd receptions really stay that high? And, does YPC really stay that high such that their total yardage over the season is that high?
By "roles as a receiver", I meant that GB doesnt ask Jennings to run a pass play for 4 yards to get the first down...they save that for Donald Driver and his precise route running. If Jennings had that role, he wouldnt be averaging almost 17 ypc. I just think its silly that if AJ gets 12 TDs this year, he is all of a sudden this game breaker...when we've all seen what he is capable of doing. And for the record, I always categorized game breaker and game changer as the same thing...
Also, the Texans, as a team, only had 21 passing TDs...Saints had 34, Cards had 31, Cowboys 29, Packers 28...How is anyone supposed to score double digit TDs when there are 21 TDs to go around to a probowl WR, probowl TE, solid #2 WR, and a budding star at RB? The Texans just werent able to get into the endzone with all the opportunities we had last season.. Imagine if we had 8 more TDs to spread around...surely a couple of them would go to AJ...and that would surely make him a game breaker because it would give him this arbitrary number of "10". Looking at the passing offenses of the NFL teams... Only 1 team had more pass completions of 20+ yards. Only 3 teams had more pass completions of 40+ yards. Yet, every team within discussion had at least 28 passing TDs. Therefore, the Texans really do air it out as much as any team in the league...they just dont score. Watching the games, I have seen AJ mess up a couple of times in the endzone, but really, the blame rests on the play calling and the countless other mistakes that are made in that territory. We gave up way too many chances to put up 7. I think we will be much improved in this area this upcoming season and you will definitely see AJ improve on his TD numbers.
well... first of all, i've focused on TDs *and* YPC, if we're being perefectly honest here. but really - the conversation (in general) is devolving into minutae. i consider andre johnson a great WR for reasons that differ from many in this thread - that's pretty much the gist. he simply doesn't put the ball in the end zone enough for me to consider him the MOST valuable texan, let alone player in houston. probably not; but if johnson were catching 35-40 fewer balls, do we have any evidence to suggest his TDs and YPC were go up accordingly? we could probably list 1,000s of factors. to me, johnson took his game to another level in 2007. prior to that - and no one wants to admit this but he could be single-covered and effectively negated. he struggled to create space and separation, too. and, of course, there were the (lack of) TDs. so he definitely shares *some* of the blame.
that's a fair point. as i mentioned in my response to msn, i actually think johnson's getting better - so it wouldn't be all of a sudden. he oh-so-slightly regressed last year - i thought he made a tremendous leap in '07 and was closer to '06 johnson last year than '07 - though still better than '06. so if he gets back to his '07 level - *and starts scoring more TDs* - i think we'd be looking at the complete package. absolutely, rezdawg - so let me ask you a question: why is that not (at least some of) the fault of our game changing/breaking/best wide receiver in football?
