I loved Joe Montana...one of my favorite players ever. But I think he gets a bit overrated as well. Ultimately, he sealed the deal, so it's hard to argue against him. But Montana had arguably the greatest offense ever assembled around him. Seriously. Two hall of fame receivers...a hall of fame running back...a hall of fame tight end...at least one hall of fame offensive lineman. I think his accomplishments are amazing...but I'm more impressed with Elway's, ultimately. The teams that Elway took to the Super Bowl pre-Davis were not very strong teams...it was Elway and everyone else. He's the most amazing QB I've ever seen. The one I MOST feared the Oilers lining up against...and ultimately, I think, the best QB to ever play the game.
Moon was 3-7 in the post-season. Just thought I'd mention the stat since I had it and all (the 7th playoff loss was with Minnesota).
pgabriel -- I put some serious thought to all of this last night after a spirited match of Hungry, Hungry Hippos with my wife and son. I think you're right and I'm wrong. I tried to come up with a top 10 list, and I can't keep Warren off that list.
oh...not at all!!! (actually, my son is the freaking champ at that game! i don't know where he acquired the skill set necessary for massive marble hippo chomping..but he's unbelievable at that game. my wife and i would get like 4 marbles each, and he'd have 12 --- "i won...right dad?")
jack!! that's so classic! he's also mastered the buffalo stance, by the way (can't freaking get that song out of my head since you said that the other day!) we're in my firm's seats tonight... section 110..row 34.
To say Warren Moon was a product of the system is pure ignorance. He made the Pro Bowl 9 times. The R&S only came to Houston from 90-93. Moon had great pro bowl years pre and post R&S. 2 of the best seasons in Moon's career came in Minnesota and Seattle. Hell, he made the pro bowl at age FOURTY in Seattle. Not many QB's in NFL history had Moon's longevity in terms of being an elite player into late 30's and even 40 plus. CERTAINLY not guys like Brett Favre (who has completely sucked the last 2 yrs) and Troy Aikman who many rank over Warren. As PGabriel said, the typical storyline in the Oilers playoff losses was Moon passing the Oilers to big leads (Denver, Buffalo, and to a lesser extent KC and Pittsburgh in 89) and the Defense just completely unable to stop the offense. Then the Oilers would try without success to run the clock out. The R&S didnt have a tight end or use fullbacks so it was really hard to run the ball when teams were actually expecting it. Moon probably had one of the 3 best games in his career against Denver in the playoffs on the road, but some idiots still put the loss on him. Ditto for Buffalo. Watch the D give up 35 points to a backup QB and backup RB when they knew the Bills offense could only pass to get back in the game and blame Moon. Yeah, maybe he should have put up 60 so his freakin Defense could actually hold a lead. The whole reason mediocre backs like Lo White, Pinkett, Brown, etc did so well was because teams came into Sunday only trying to stop Moon and would often play 7 DB's and just concede the run. What did those guys ever do on teams other than Houston? Ditto for Givens/Jeffries who were absolute nothings in the NFL without Moon throwing them the ball. Most importantly, none of these other guys like Montana, Aikman, Favre, Marino had to wait till age 28-29 to come to the NFL because of racism. Had they lost the physically prime years of their career banished in Canada, they absolutely would not have the body of works they currently do when their careers are evaulated and it's completely disingenuous to NOT consider this when evaluating Moon's career. He'd easily have every NFL passing record if you prorate his stats to account for the lost years. The 2 most bitter and symbolic losses in Oiler postseason were Denver and Buffalo and if someone thinks Moon had anything to do with those, they just dont know football.
OMG, I can't believe that four people voted for Dan "Past (to the wrong guy)-orini...worst...QB...ever...
the burger king commercial where he's steve young is my new favorite. sorry, I couldn't think of another thread to put this in.
The Oilers weren't as good as any of those teams from a pure talent standpoint (I am speaking of the teams with the QB's that you think are better than Moon). How can you even type that? I'll give you Elway. He got his squads to the big show a number of times. However, he didn't win until he had a stud RB (T. Davis) and a stud WR (actually TE in Sharpe). Rod Smith is better than any WR Moon ever had in Houston. More offensive talent than Moon...check. Additionally, he got to one of those Super Bowls because the defense caused a Byner fumble. Wow....a defense actually stepping up for the QB to preserve the lead... Marino had Clayton & Duper in his lone Super Bowl appearance. More offensive talent than Moon...check. Young had R.Watters and Rice. More offensive talent than Moon...check. Aikman had E.Smith, Irvin and Novachek. More offensive talent than Moon...check. Montana had Craig, Clark, Jones and Rice. More offensive talent than Moon...check. So again, how did the Oilers have as much offensive talent as those other teams? I willa dmit that our offensive line had studs, but that still didn't stop Moon from getting drilled every season since we didn't have a TE or FB. Please detail which players, and tell me how you think our players were better, because their numbers surely weren't. Additionally, the only one of our players to stay successful after he left the gimmick R&S was Moon (I believe one of our receivers was ok before he got here). As someone else mentioned, for all the "names" on our defense, they could never hold a lead in a playoff game. It's not like we were losing games 10-7 and that we couldn't score. Moon put up 35 and the defense couldn't hold. And those other QB's didn't have bad defenses either.
