I can't believe more people voted for Carlson than Dan Pastorini (who's 55 years-old today, by the way).
Cody was one hell of a back up, but as a starter for a season, the team did not win as much as in his spot starts. Pastorini was "Luv ya Blue", he was a blue collar qb that everyone liked and a winner. So why in the hell does Cody have a vote?
Why not? Not everyone here is 30+ years old. Hell, I'm almost 30 and I barely remember him. If you're going to make a case for not voting for someone, it should probably be Blanda, don't you think?
i didn't vote for dave klingler...but i knew him personally...and honestly, i don't know that i've ever met a nicer guy. lives on a ranch in kentucky, now, i think. great guy.
Wonder why there's universal love for Campbell then. If they don't remember Pastorini, they probably don't remember Earl, either. But I guess I can't imagine anyone voting for Carlson as the best QB in Houston history at all. Those folks must not think much of Houston's football pedigree. Heck, David Carr has already thrown for more yards than Cody did in his whole career.
Moon didn't play with great talent. He had a really good offensive line, he never, ever, ever, had a franchise running back and you saw what happened when Elway finally got to play with a Terrel Davis type, and I'm sorry, Givens and Jefferies were products of the system just as much as Moon was. Those guys were average receivers at best.
Moon had a great team around him, p. He had a better defense than Elway ever had. He had better running backs than Elway had until Davis....but remember, Elway still had his team in 2 Super Bowls before then...Moon won about 2 playoff games total in his career. Again...I freaking loved Moon. I rooted for the guy big time...had posters of him up in my room as a kid. Had a Moon jersey. LOVED THE GUY!!! But he's not Elway. He's not Montana. And he is not among those top-tier quarterbacks of all time.
What running backs are you talking about? One year wonder Gary Walker, or never lived up to expactations Mike Rozier. Or maybe Alonzo Highsmith. The problem with the Oilers was that they couldn't run the clock out with their mediocre backs and gimick offense when they did build those big leagues. If Warren Moon didn't have to go to Canada because he was black he would probably hold every passing record in the NFL.
I'm talking about RBs who shuttled in and put up pretty damn good numbers. Yes...Gary Walker had a KILLER year in his breakout season...he was a Pro Bowler that season, if I remember right. Elway had Sammy Winder. You may be right...but again, I don't think that would be the case if he were drafted by any other team than the Oilers and their "gimmick" offense. I don't see him going to Miami during the Dolphins years and performing any better than Marino did. I'm not trying to diminish Moon. He was an awesome quarterback. I just don't think you can compare him to the top tier of QB's who have played this game.
Other thing about those so called great defenses. Every big dissappointing loss under Moon is on the Defense. They couldn't hold Elway on a 4th and freakin 20, they couldn't keep a freakin 30 point + lead in Buffalo, and they couldn't stop a 156 year old Montana when they had the lead. All those games, Moon put his team in a position to win.
Gary Brown is your example of Moon's superior teammates?? He had 8 good games - half a season! - earned a big contract, and was never heard from again. I read an interesting article about the topic of "greatest passer ever" which rated Moon somewhere outside the top-10, but reasonably close. I really think QBs get too much of the credit or blame for losses - it's not 5 on 5, like basketball, where a great player always dominates. There are 22 starters, and players don't play both ways. http://www.footballresearch.com/articles/frpage.cfm?topic=marino
Gary Brown is one of the running backs I'm citing...he had a helluva year that year...he was among the league leaders in yards/carry...he was more than sufficient. but he wasn't the only Oiler RB to go over 1000 yards. or to have a really good year in the run and shoot offense.
pgabriel -- they share in the blame. no doubt the defense fell apart...but geez, if moon completes anything in the second half in Buffalo, we win. awesome the first half...sucked the second half. great statistical afternoon....one of the worst losses in NFL history. kinda sums up the moon era, frankly. the KC loss...eh...was anyone surprised when Montana led that team back?? i sure wasn't...i knew as soon as he got the ball in his hands he'd bring his team back...sadly, i NEVER got that vibe from Warren.
The Oilers did score again in Buffalo, and the defense stilled managed to blow the game against a back up quarterback. How about having a running back to hand the ball off to when you're up by thirty.
they had a running back...they didn't have an offense for it. i totally agree, that's a failure of the run and shoot. but they sure were able to turn to lorenzo white before to win games (remember games where they couldn't pass in inclimate weather against AFC Central opponents on the road). i'm not hanging buffalo on moon....what i'm saying is that i can't recall feeling very confident when we had the ball and we had to score. as the poll someone else mentioned above...he's not in the top 10. i'm really not sure what we're arguing about....are you saying is the equal of Montana? Elway? Favre? Marino??
Okay, you named four, who's the other six. And honestly, I don't see why you would put Marino above Moon. Marino couldn't overcome the same circumstances Moon couldn't, mediocre teamates. They are both in the same category, great passers, not the best field generals. But I think Marino is the most overrated quarterback in the history of the NFL.
I think Marino is overrated, too. I've been singing that song for a long time. I'd still rank Marino higher than Moon, though. Do you put Moon in your top 10 ever?? I could start naming some off the top of my head, but that might be limited. I wonder who else was on the list that was previously mentioned.
Off the top of my head, these are the QBs I put in front of Moon definitly. Montana Elway Unitas Farve S. Young Then I would put Bradshaw and Aikman in front of him for being the engineers of dyanasties. Then maybe Tarkitan and Marino, and after that it gets dicey. So he squeaks into my top ten. You asked what are we arguing about? I don't know, but I just have a problem with former Oiler fans who blame Moon for not getting this team over the hump. All those quarterbacks on my list who have rings played on better teams. Aikman, Bradshaw, Montana, and Young played on some of the best teams ever. Its really not fair to Moon. And it still upsets me to this day that those idiots running the Oilers thought Cody Carlson could step in and run this team. Cody Carlson's tenure as started led to the Oilers leaving Houston. The team sucked, the fans stopped going, Bud asked for more money, and the rest is history.
The list I previously mentioned adjusted for era, much like Bill James' ratings for baseball players, and found old-timers like Sammy Baugh and Sid Luckman topped the list. I would point out that the article was compiled in 1995, and Moon played 3 more productive seasons after that one (making the Pro Bowl in 97). I'd rank Montana on the top of any QB list I could make, Favre would be high on my list, and would rate Elway and Marino both above Moon, but I think Marino was a vastly overrated player who was virtually even with Moon in his prime. Both had incredibly strong arms, Marino perhaps a little more accurate, but Moon could at least run when he had to.
I'm not convinced as you are that the Oilers weren't as good as some of those teams, from a pure talent perspective. Steve Young as a commentator on CBS said he thought the Oilers of the early 90's were the best team that never got to a Super Bowl. I heartily agree. But here's the real rub...not only did they not get to a Super Bowl, they didn't even get to the conference championship. I don't blame Moon alone. But he certainly shares in the blame. I'd have to think about my top 10 some more. But I completely blanked on Young, and I think he may be the exact opposite of Marino...he may be the most underrated quarterback in NFL history.
