Yes, Bird had a ton of help from other stars on his squad. LeBron's supporting cast is nowhere near as good as Bird's
Bird and I don't think LeBron will ever surpass him. Bird was a better rebounder and just as good at getting everyone else involved. And he may have been the best closer I have ever seen...Jordan included.
bird is arguably the most clutch player ever. EVER. what has lebron done besides fill up a stat sheet? come back when he wins multiple mvps and rings. does he have the potential? sure. but anything can happen. ralph sampson was on his way to becoming an all-time great and look what happened to him. why anyone would vote for lebron at this point is beyond me.
To be fair to LeBron, he has carried a team to the finals already and looks to be on the way again. Dr. J's numbers are pretty sick too, especially his ABA work.
The discussion should be between three players right now: Bird, Dr. J, and LeBron. Baylor's a trailing 4th. People forget about the impact Dr. J had. He was a major reason the ABA and NBA merged. He redefined the way basketball is played. He established the dunk as art form and an integral part of the game. He was the first basketball player that every kid on the playground (both here and abroad) pretended to be. He did phenomenal stuff, but unfortunately, he was on his way down by the time he hit the NBA, so some people seem a bit blinded by that. The guy was incredible. Bird rejuvenated the league and helped make it the popular game and marketing juggernaut it is now. He, along with Magic, made passing cool and Bird was almost psycho in his mental approach to the game. His play also broke down a number of basketball stereotypes that were prevalent at the time. Both of those guys had a tremendous influence on how the game was perceived around the world. Because their impact went beyond the court, you have to put those two at the top. Personally, I would put Dr J. there because of what he meant to the game, but I have little to quibble about with Bird on top of the list. LeBron has potential to further expand the game globally, but he's not there yet. He is an incredible combo of size, strength, speed, and skill, but you can't place him at the top of the list now. Besides, I think if you took prime Bird and had him go one-on-one with today's LeBron, Bird would win. LeBron would have the athletic advantage, but Bird would get in his head and psych him out enough to create an advantage. It seems strange to say, but I think LeBron needs to fail big to get to that mental level that the greats like Bird and Jordan played at. Pippen does not belong in this thread.
I voted for Bird, but don't say LeBron hasn't done anything besides fill up a stat sheet. He did single-handedly drag a team of glorified scrubs to the 2007 NBA finals, including one of the greatest playoff performances ever in which he went on his own personal 25-0 run to bring his team back to win in double overtime in game 5 of the ECF. And he wasn't even as good then as he is now. I do agree that his resume is far too incomplete. He's well on his way and I believe he will be the greater than Bird by the time he's hanging up his sneakers, but right now all he has to his name is a conference championship and an MVP trophy.
Barring injury, Lebron will probably pass Bird in terms of greatness by the time he is 30. Can the Cavs/any other Lebron team win a few titles? He's already led one team to the finals, and looks like he'll do it again this year.
this is so silly holding up the ring argument in comparison to bird. yeah, bird would have won rings with the offensive juggernauts Lebron has played with. That isn't an anti bird argument, but please Lebron having no rings isn't central to this question
For the Lebron voters: if Lebron was horribly injured tomorrow and never able to play another game in his life, would you still call him the best small forward of all time?
Bird is first...with that I agree. But Lebron is ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY already a better player than Scottie Pippen ever dreamed about being.
Yes because he is the better player. The question is not which SF had the best career (Bird or Dr J) or which SF has the most rings (Robert Horry or John Havlicek).
The Celtics won 28 games the year before Bird joined them. They won 60 games his rookie year and the title his second. There is no arguement that gives Bird the edge more than Bird and Magic saving the NBA and making it the game of choice for many of us growing up in the 80's. In the years before Bird playoff games and NBA finals games were on tv tape delayed, and now every post season game is in prime time.
The team they had was pretty talented the year before bird got there. They just underachieved, and they got cedric maxwell.
No T-Mac? Or is he a point forward. I voted James because I never saw Larry Bird play and I think Lebron will go down as the greatest individual talent ever if he stays relatively healthy for another 10 years.
Bird for now...... LJ when its all said and done. HOFs on the Boston teams. Scrubs on the Cavs teams.
