Am I? Playing the traditional 4 is a lost art. You either have PFs playing the Center position, like Duncan and Howard, or you have them playing big SFs, like Nowitzki and Sheed. Take Ruland for example. A career average of 17/10, his best year was 22/12. Sheed's a career 15/7 guy and his best year was 19/8. No doubt Sheed is the better basketball player and the more gifted athletically, but Ruland does more of what a traditional power forward does and does it better. You can add in Ruland's FG%, whose career average is way beyond Sheed's and is better than even Sheed's best year. You can say Sheed takes threes and thus his FG% is going to be down, but that just buttresses my point. Look at Amare and Dirk... I won't compare the obviously superior ones... Malone, Hayes, Kemp, Barkley, or McHale, but of the rest I listed... At least one 20/10 year (0 so far for Amare and 0 so far for Dirk): OT-1 Sampson-2 Cowens-2 Cummings-1 Coleman-3 Webber-6 (as old as he is, his career averages are 21/10) Lucas-2 Issel-6 (his high years for scoring are better than Dirk) McGinnis-7 (career ABA/NBA average of 20/11) Truck Robinson-2 LJ-1 Ruland-1 Baker-1 (Of the players in this poll, outside of Garnett and Duncan with 9 20/10s a piece, you have Brand with 4, Boozer with 2, Bosh with 1, and Jamison may do it this year.) The following had multiple years of better rebound numbers than Dirk or Amare's best year: Roundfield-6 Cage-3 Williams-8 Willis-5 Sikma-8 Rodman-10 Grant-2 (Additionally, Willis, Williams, and Sikma were within 1 point of averaging 20/10 at least once.) So we have three left. Nance can't match the offensive numbers of Dirk and Amare and he doesn't dominate them in rebounds like all the others... but he averaged over 2 blocks per game for 7 years. Something Dirk and Amare have managed only once between them... though Amare will probably do it again this year. Nance's career block avg is only .6 behind the combined career avg of Dirk and Amare together. During his peak years, Chambers is about 1 rebound behind Dirk and Amare, but is a better scorer than Amare and his high year is better than Dirk's high year. Plus, he's a significantly better dunker than Dirk. That leaves A.C. Green. OK, the numbers don't bear me out on this one. Still, at his peak he was a 12/9 guy for 7 years often playing a defensive support role for other scorers. All that said, I stand by my original statement: All except Duncan and KG are behind the following... either undersized or scared of physical play or afraid to D up tough.
Do I need to start another one of my "KG is the most overrated athlete in pro sports" rants? Dirk is 100x more accomplished than KG and owns him statistically. Why is it so unreasonable for me to think a player that's clearly more accomplished is better than the lovable loser, Kevin Garnett?
I think KG is a better all-around player than Duncan, but Duncan plays smart and has won several championships.
1. Duncan 2. Garnett The biggest difference between these two players is...their IQ. Duncan makes his teammates better. Garnett punches them.
Talent-wised, it's definitely Rasheed Wallace. There's nothing Rasheed cant do on the court - defense, turn-around jumper, post-up, 3 ptrs. Rasheed can be the best player in NBA if he wants to. Result-wised, it's Tim Duncan. The most overrated - Kevin Garnett.
you have a point about sheed. but his mentality has been like "if the coach wants me to be the man for 5 minutes on the court, then yeah i will do it." talent is obviously a big element. but work ethics, determination and leadership certainly are as big in making a good pf or a ball player period. (btw, talent-wise, chris webber is on y favorite list of all timers.)
THe KG is overrated banner is actually pretty popular and endorsed by Skip Bayless and Scottie Pippen. I know both are not very credible, this is one argument they usually have legitimate claim to, unlike many others. I remember Pippen saying KG was overrated, because of his numbers which were about the same as Chris Webber's and he had only been out of the 1st Round once. Duncan is 5x champion, KG has managed to win once. I know the teams are set up different, but I don't think S.A. wins 5 titles with Kevin Garnett, even though he is a better player (not in big game situations though). Tim Duncan is alot like Tiger Woods, sometimes, he may go though stretch where is relatively quiet and not really winning, but when the light turn on, he absolute takes over. I think Duncan has overachieved a bit, because he could go back to 97 or 98 and say the Spurs were going to win 5 championships and 3 without 20-10 David Robinson. KG, i think Garnett is a very good player and great all-star, like T-Mac, Nowitzki, Yao,Melo, and Iverson. Elite players (possibly in top 5 or 10 players of all time), I would say not.
If you think Kevin McHale was a weak defender, you've never seen him play. Check the 80's all Defense teams, you'll see his name 6 times. And he had the best low post game of any PF...ever.
Rasheed wastes his talent by being such a lazy, inconsistent knucklehead who takes too much time off while on the court.
Power Forward is an overrated position......too short to dominate over opposing dominant centers......not mobile enough to dominate teams with quickness.......power forward is the dirty work rebound collecting garbage putback helpside defense complimentary position of the 5 man lineup...
Excuse me, where is Chuck Hayes? I don't like Duncen really. I don't know why but I just don't like this guy. For me the best PF in the NBA is still KG.
Amare - No man at his size should be as freakishly athletic as him. He will dominate the league in a couple years, more so that he is already. Its scary. Duncan - Gotta give it to the big fundamentals, at 7 foot he gets blocks and scores easily. Boozer - The guy may be undersized height wise, but his quickness and strength make up for it. He can shoot and has a terrific left hand. Grabs boards like it is nothing also. Good for 22/11.
i'm not saying i wouldn't take duncan over the three i listed, i think it's just a little hasty to say he's the greatest 4 ever. he is certainly making a case, i'm just not ready to put him there yet. the question should be, what team would suffer the most from losing the player? stockton without malone? kj and majerle trying to play without barkley? would the celtics have won in '86 without mchale?
I agree. Boozer is apparently underrated by this board. While he does benefit from a great system and solid pick and roll point guard, he's now in his second year of full health and his second year of 21+ppg, 10.7+rpg and 2.8+ apg. He completely underperforms in the blocks department and isn't a special rebounder by any stretch, but he's a very very solid power forward.
I assume this was not a career award, but more "who is the best power forward right now". If we are talking career award, than we can say the Rockets have 2 of the best 5 centers in the game. Personally, the "who is the best PF argument" right now is real tough. Between Duncan, KG, Amare and Dirk. I think Duncan might be the best player--and certainly is who I'd want 1st for the playoffs, but he is more effective at center, and plays more center. I originally voted for Amare because he has been so explosive since moving to PF and has the highest PER, But when I look at PER differential in playing the PF spot--I guess should have gone with Garnett by a hair over Dirk, then Amare and then Duncan. In terms of who is the best PF right now there is a good case for any of these 4. Certainly the gap Duncan had from the rest isn't what it used to be--lets also remember the last 2 championships his team have win others got the MVP (last year, Parker) or could have (the one before Manu had a good case). I cannot with full confidence say Duncan is a better PF than these other guys right now.
I think Boozer and Bosh are outstanding, and I think better than any below the top 6, but I don't think I can confidently say either are better than KG, Dirk, Amare nor Duncan.
Funny thing is BOTH Chris Webber (very underrated in his prime and lost in the shadow of the Shaq-Duncan best bigman transition) and KG were better players in their prime than Scottie Pippen was. If only they got to play with Jordan.
