Skills > Athleticism. Always. So Yao > Howard right now imo. However, I have to say Howard has a higher ceiling and he can surpass Yao if he acquires better shooting skills and post up moves in the future. Maybe Howard will be the next Olaguwon if he keeps improving, right now he is just a new Shaq in the making. I used to watch NBA every game available on TV, but now I just only watch several teams because all those just throw the ball up power dunk, flopping and just take the ball to the key to get to the line offense. Where are the skills? I say these are disgusting basketball. No wonder the TV rating has hit rock bottom.
I'mma Tell Y'all right now, come Dec. 19th, Dwight aint goin get 35 and 20 reb on yao.... The Chinese Godzilla will hold and lock his ground and wreak havoc..... I'm tellin Yall right now, The Chinese Frankenstein will Keep his ground come Dec. 19th.....
Not that I prefer one over the other, but wow........ <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8o5_jGvyVvo&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8o5_jGvyVvo&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
He's 22 and will most likely keep his hops and strength for another 10-12 years. Most great centres start going downhill around 35 so thats playing it conservative. I don't think you need a J when you dunk it 8x game and rebound everything in site. The main difference btw the two is Howards ability to rebound everything whereas Yao can only rebound balls in his immediate vicinity. Imagine if we had Howard to grab all that garbage Skip throws up on a daily basis?
I feel that Yao, being 27 has almost peaked as a player, and any improvements he makes now will be in slight increments. He already is a great shooter and has a decent back to the basket game. How much more can he improve in these areas? He'll can't improve on his agility and his lack of speed so he'll never be a truly great rebounder or be able to guard quicker guys in the post. Thus, while being a competent rebounder, he'll never truly dominate the glass. This leads me to conclude that if Yao can keep doing what hes doing, he'll wind up in the 2nd tier of elite centres with guys like Patrick Ewing and Robinson. Yao just doesn't have the atheletism to make it to the top 5 (Chamberlain, Kareem, Shaq, Hakeem) And before any of you guys discount Pat Ewing's greatness... he was a 10x allstar and a hall of famer.
That youtube video of the dunks was just sick. He hit his fricking head on the rim!! This kid is the freakiest athlete I have ever seen in a big man. He isn't ever going to be Shaq big or strong but at 6'11" just under 270lb of muscle and the some insane quickness and hops this kid really does have no ceiling.
Not discounting Howard's freakish athleticism, but so what if he hit his head on the rim? Uhh, he's 6' 11". In 2000 when 6' 3" Stevie Francis nearly hit HIS head on the rim in the Vince/T-Mac/Francis dunk contest, now that was impressive.
Why does everyone keep saying athletism is requirement to be great? In most of the major sports, you don't necessarily have to be a freak of nature or have outstanding athletism to be great player. Overly agile, super fast, high vertical leap, and etc. Look at Peyton Manning, Larry Bird, Tim Duncan, Troy Aikman, Tom Brady, Reggie Miller, John Riggins, Lance Alworth - Jerry Rice, and etc. Every player I mentioned above are not freaks of nature by any stretch of the imagination or can make outstanding vertical leaps or can run really fast, but every person I just mentioned are all-time greats in each of their respective sports. In fact, majority of them are pretty slow compared to most of their peers, Manning and Brady are probably not as gifted physically as someone like Vince Young, Michael Vick, John Elway,or even Steve Young. But they win games through their intangibles, smarts, being sneaky, and just having a great will to win. Another thing is would rather take any of the specimen small forwards of todays league over Larry Bird....who all could probably out run, out jump/leap him in every aspect of the game, but lack his clutch Ft shooting/unstoppable, his hustle, mid range shot/will to win. I gurantee, even with his slower speed, lack of amazing dunks, and lower vertical ability, that Larry Bird could lead his team much deeper into playoffs than say Rashard Lewis, Joe Johnson, Richard Jefferson, Rudy Gay, or Josh Howard. This coming from someone who hates the Celtics, and wasn't a Larry Bird fan. If you look receivers like Moss, Owens, and C. Johnson, who can out leap and out run almost anyone in league....and compare them to a receiver like Rice, Harrison, Irvin, or Holt. Most would say the top group is better because they can get more explosive plays and are bigger. But, isn't the bottom (of smaller and probably slower) group more clutch, most likely have better hands, and are known for winning big games. You could say Moss and Owens are much more physically gifted (superior) than the bottom four, but haven't the four on bottom won a total of 8 Super Bowls and made 10 Super Bowl appearance. While, the top group have a combined Super Bowl appearance of 1. Or compare modern days hitters, like Rodriguez, Tejada, Guerrero, Pujols to old timers like Mantle, Cobb, Ruth, Aaron, and Mays. Are they that much better than old times, becaue they can jump higher and run a little bit faster. Doesn't baseball take a degree of skill that can't necessarily be given to by genetics and physical strength....doesn't take a degree of initution and thought to make great home runs or even catches. Athletism is very important, but it's not the only thing. In sports, people over look skills, decision making, will to win, and etc....for whatever person can put up the most highlight reels.
Point noted. But you don't think that is a slight difference btw Robinson and the group i mentioned above? Though Robinson won a title, he did it when Timmy D arrived and took over the majority of the scoring. He also got dominated by Hakeem when it truly mattered.
I'm not saying that athletism is required to be great. In Birds case, he just had a much higher basketball IQ then everyone else and was the greatest shooter/fierceest competitor in the game (before Jordan). The problem is Yao is not nearly the competitor that Bird is and does not have the same basketball IQ. I'm not saying Yao is bad, but people on this board do generally over estimate Yao MIngs potential. I mean the guy is a 7'6 giant, and a guy with his size and SKILL is unprecedented. BUt despite all this, he has his limitations. Just my two cents.
He got dominated by Hakeem in that one playoff series. Why? It may have been because the games Hakeem missed late in the season gave him fresher legs than anyone else. DRob's legacy is unfairly tarnished by what happened in that series. If his coach (Bob Hill) had had enough sense to give him some help, the individual matchup wouldn't have been so one-sided. Hakeem was definitely better than DRob but not that much better.
Agreed, and most of his limitations are from his mindset. If he were more aggressive, he could really be even better. I believe his head gets in the way, in other words, I believe he thinks too much.... DD
I think one of things you are forgetting to mention is reaction time. Even though jerry rice might not have a fast 40 time he had some insane reaction time and great hands. That is a gift. Peyton manning has a great arm and is tall and has good reaction time. Mantle, Ruth etc. had great eye hand coordination which is a gift. All these athlete posses something tangible that makes them great. Guys like Bird and Jordan have that killer instinct which is a gift. Yao has size and good work ethic, but he is slow in both all out speed and reaction time. I am glad we have yao he is a very good player, but let us not pretend he is going to all of sudden get faster or get that killer instinct. I am surprised Dhoward is winning. The YOF must have not seen the poll yet.
Most of Yao's limitations are physical, not mental. Extremely slow, poor balance, cannot jump, and as Air Langhi points out, slow reaction time. What we see today is Yao at or near his ceiling. The sky is no longer the limit.
Dwight can play with anybody in the league. Yao can't hang with midgets. Give me Dwight anyday. For those who says Yao is better, are you gonna reject it if the magic offers to trade Dwight for Yao?
