Duncan has had the better carrer due to his constancy but Hakeem hed the higher peek. So it depends on how you look at it. Hakeem's best is better than Duncan's best but Duncan's average is better than Hakeem's average.
I don't think it's so clear cut. 1.) Chamberlain - There are players around today who are definitely more talented. There are players around today who are bigger, stronger, and more athletic. But Chamberlain's presence completely changed the NBA. In his time, he was unstoppable. 100 points. 50+ rebounds in a game (twice). And the NBA changed the rules to KEEP him from dominating. 2.) Jordan - But they changed to rules to HELP him (and other guards) dominate. Though I will accept any argument saying he's the greatest. After all, it's STILL a big man's game, and Jordan went up against some of the best. He won in a way no one had ever done or will ever do again. 3.) Oscar Robertson - Averaged a triple-double. Was 1/10th of a rebound away from doing it again. 4.) Russell - If you're going on individual talent, it's definitely Olajuwon here. He had a kind of talent no big man ever had and that no big man may ever have again. But if you're going by overall career, you can't ignor Bill Russell. 5.) Magic - He had a combination of size, speed, and IQ that no player has matched. He's the only player on any GOAT list who played all five positions (and played them all WELL). 6.) Bird - He was one of the cockiest players in NBA history. He would talk a player up and shoot it in his face. He'd call out the play the Celtics were about to run to the opposing team and dare them to stop it. Hey may have had an incredible supporting cast, but he also made up challenges just to prove how great they were (like going whole games shooting only left-handed). 7.) Olajuwon or Kareem - I think people really overrate Kareem. The NBA titles thing doesn't fly with me; Kareem couldn't do it without Oscar Robertson or Magic Johnson. Olajuwon did it in '94. Drexler in '95 was Olajuwon's Oscar Robertson. People argue that if the NBA kept tabs on blocks earlier, Kareem would have more blocks. Super. I can also argue that if the NBA had properly kept tabs on stats, Olajuwon would have more quadruple doubles. They played each other in college. They played each other in the pros. I think this is a pair you can argue all day and ever come to a decision on. But I think people just give Kareem the upper hand because he was popular. 9.) Duncan - Tim Duncan is the greatest power forward of all time. Period. Jordan aside, Tim Duncan has more basketball IQ than perhaps any player in history. He is David Robinson's Oscar Robertson/Magic Johnson. He opens up the paint for the Spurs and allows Tony Parker-Longoria and Manu GiNObili to play at the level they have. 10.) Rafer Alston, er, I meant Shaq - Sh--. I hate Shaq. But I have to admit that he was good. It doesn't mean I like him. Player who I could argue on the list to replace Shaq: Elgin Baylor. Players not on the list who are every bit as cool as Shaq is stupid: Julius Erving, Walt Frazier Players who will make this list and kick Shaq's a-- (which probably tastes awful) off it: Lebron James, Lebron James, Lebron James, Lebron James, and Lebron James. Possibly Lebron James. EDIT: I'd just like to go on the record with my top 10 favorite players of all-time. You can decide if I overrated or underrated players based on that. 1.) Olajuwon 2.) Drexler 3.) Magic 4.) Jordan 5.) Bird 6.) Barkley 7.) Nash 8.) Duncan 9.) Lebron 10.) Dominique Wilkins I was born in 1984, so I'm too young for Robertson, Dr. J, or Walt Frazier to really appreciate them. But I DO love watching old games with 'em.
except that Duncan's average is not better than Hakeems average. I think right now Duncans and Hakeems career averages are relatively equal. And Duncan still has the latter half of his career to go.
Dream and Kareem did not play each other in college. Dr. J's love is slipping as the years go by. He was an incredible player who revolutionized the game and in many ways, made it what it is today. I look at Dr. J, Jordan, Magic, Bird, Dream and maybe a few others as the revolutionaries and Duncan, Nash, KG as players who built upon previous innovations. I value the former much more.
Nice post but I disagree on two things. 1. I think Mike is the GOAT. 2. About Kareem being overrated I think hes the second greatest player to ever play the game behind Mike. Now you say Kareem never won without the big O and Magic which is true, but you can also say the same thing about them. The year the Bucks won the title in 71 Kareem was the best player on that team he won the MVP that year and the finals MVP. So its clear Kareen was batman and the big O was robin, so I would say big O needed Kareem more than Kareem needed him. And lets not forget Kareem won 3 MVP's with the bucks and LA have there ever been a player to do that? One thing I can say is when he played with Magic that helped his game a lot as he got older. But I think both are credit 50/50 for the rings they won together.
Agreed. In Kareem's defense, he was able to remain an effective player longer than anyone outside of Jordan and Malone... but can you imagine how many titles Dream would have had if he'd played with Magic?
Not only Dr. J but that whole Sixers team in 83. People forget how great of a team they was with Dr. J and Malone.
Please tell me how you concluded the bolded part of the above statement? Besides assists, turnovers and rebounds, all of Hakeem's averages are better. And this is including Hakeem playing the crap seasons with Toronto, etc, that diluted his numbers. For example, Duncan has 11.8 rebounds per game and Hakeem has 11.1...even though Duncan hasn't played his "dwindle days" yet. So really, besides assists and turnovers, Hakeem's avg is better than Duncan's. Additionally, Hakeem's playoff numbers get a nice bump. The only thing Duncan has been more consistent on is being surrounded by solid teammates. Again, he won ring 3 against Detroit by going 10-27 in the closeout game. Dream never had that luxury. Which Spurs title team loses if you replace Duncan with Hakeem?
Out of those 3, the only guy that i think was innovative in any way was KG. Duncan is a great player, Nash a really good one but they haven't changed the game, even slightly. I don't understand the argument though. Even an older Hakeem was more dominant than Duncan in his prime. I think you have to look at a player's abilities to decide how good they are, not their accomplishments.
Also there was no such thing as Kareem in college. Nor was there such a thing as Hakeem in college. Kareem's twin brother Lew and Hakeem's brother Akeem were the ones that played in college.
I still can't believe that someone thought Dream and Kareem played together in colllge. One played in the 60s and the other in the 80s. http://www.nba.com/history/players/abduljabbar_bio.html Full Name: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Formerly known as: Lew Alcindor Alcindor simply ruled the college ranks. After sitting out his first season because NCAA regulations prevented freshmen from playing at the varsity level, he was selected as Player of the Year in 1967 and 1969 by The Sporting News, United Press International, the Associated Press and the U.S. Basketball Writers Association. He was also named an All-American and the most outstanding player in the NCAA Tournament in 1967, 1968 and 1969. With Alcindor taking charge in the middle, Wooden and UCLA pocketed three national championships.
no, i knew all that stuff...definitely didn't see Alcindor play though, not as old as you tinman. I just always saw his name shortened as Lou...for what reason i don't know. I've actually never seen anyone shorten their name as Lew, whether their name was Louis or Lewis.
<- Idiot. Oops. My bad. Did I really write college? I meant in the playoffs, but when I read my statement before, I added in the pros. I knew something was wrong there. It was in the end of Kareem's career, right? Damn, that was probably the dumbest slip I've ever made. I was mentioning it not to set Hakeem over Kareem or Kareem over Hakeem but to mention how difficult it is to compare them 'cause it was old Kareem against young Dream. I feel really, REALLY stupid right about now. D'oh.
Dream better individual player. Duncan better team player. Who has more rings? So which style is better for a team? How did that style translate into wins? Do you want me to keep going on why it doesn't matter who the better individual talent is when the end result is what matters. Dream, my favorite player. Duncan compares with Russell as a team catalyst. The ME NBA sucks and the team NBA is far more enjoyable.
I can't believe some sucker revived this thread for no reason, why can't you guys revive something like the Juwan Howard threads and you can read all those suckers who thought he was going to average 17 points and 7 boards on the Rockets?
Olajuwon is clearly better than Duncan, scoring, rebounding, help defense, 1 on 1 defense, shooting range, clutch play, shot blocking, athleticism, and etc. That argument is done. Now whose better Dream or Wilt?
Not to mention Duncan clanging free throw after free throw during Finals clutch time. Dream was money in the last 5 minutes of a playoff game.
