dream is playing vs. duncan now on nbatv classics 1996 usa dream team vs. the select team saw a few plays in the 2nd qtr....dream blocked duncans turnaround baseline jumper right in his face! granted its duncans junior year but olajuwon would dominate duncans prime anyways....just thought it was ironic they showed this game now.
I just think that it is worthless to ask this question in a Rockets fan forum and expect a truthful answer. The same reason why you can't ask who's better in a Spurs fan forum. So let me tell ya'll the truth to end the debate once and for all: Hakeem is better.
This is not a bad reference point. Duncan that summer was not far off coming into his peak form. He had come of a terrific junior year in college (19-12-4Blk) and was pretty much polished at this point. He only had incremental growth basically from this point in his career on (e.g., senior college year, 21-14-3.5Bl), in fact his rook NBA year (21-12-2.5) is basically square even with his career averages. To Duncan's credit he was just an phenom for being so refined as a 20 year old. He still is an excellent athlete for a 7 footer, but just didn't have the athletic growth potential of Hakeem and Shaq. Now Duncan certainly got better and wasn't at his peak then, but nor would I say he got leaps better. That was the thing about Duncan, he was so refined the moment he stepped into the NBA. Meanwhile, the summer of 1996 Dream was just past his prime. That was the first year out of six in a row Hakeem had less than 3BPG--still a great athlete and shot blocker, but not the peerless phenom he once was. Along with blocks, his PPG and RPG also started a relatively rapid decline on that 1996-1997 season and thereafter. So I won't say it is a totally fair comparison. Hakeem had such an experience factor, but it does give us some indication how they physically match-up.
Dream is better no question. Duncan has more titles, and thats about it. Hakeem was the better scorer (never had a season below 20ppg until he was well into his 30s), blocker (all time blocks leader), defender (two DPOYs), and slightly better rebounder. What about Tim Duncan makes him better than Hakeem other than the titles? You can't sit there and say that just because he has more titles that makes him better. In that case, Robert Horry is the best active player in the league.
I'd also like to bring in that imo Duncan at times in his career has gotten the "soft" label and rightfully so....I don't think you'd ever catch anyone calling Hakeem soft in his hey day....
What an easy question. The answer is HAKEEM by far. Duncan has a great supporting cast. The first year Hakeem and the Rockets won he did it all by himself. The second time he at least had Clyde but that first time was Hakeem, no way Duncan would have won a championship with that same cast. Duncan is great but Hakeem was one of the best if not the best center ever. And you are not supposed to win championships without good supporting players, if not ask Karl Malone and Stockton. The one exception I see is Hakeem and the Rockets that first year.
what so bad about hakeem's supporting casts? ralph sampson** robert reid john lucas sleepy floyd** otis thorpe** sam cassell* mario elie vernon maxwell kenny smith robert horry clyde drexler*** charles barkley*** eddie johnson scotty pippen*** kevin willis* *all-star ** all-star while hakeem's teammate *** current hof or top 50 all time duncan's teammates david robinson** sean elliot* mario elie avery johnson? jaren jackson? jerome kersey? steve kerr stephen jackson robert horry tony parker* manu ginobili* bruce bowen (first all def team several times) michael finley* now that i look at it, that better supporting cast thing is a ridiculous argument.
oops, i missed the third star for david robinson*** (the guy who has been named a loser several times in this thread).
This is a very simple argument. All the all-stars that Dream played with were declining players. Other than Ralph, Thorpe, and Floyd; Dream was also at a stage where he was declining as a player, after his 11th season pretty much. And the twin towers were dismantled quick because of Ralph's injury. Thorpe and Pippen declined drastically after their Rocket careers. Barkley gave us 1 good season and 1 1/2 decent seasons. Cassell really bloomed after his 5th or 6th season in the league and became an all star like in is 10th season. The only argument Duncan might have as he gets older, he may maintain his level of play since he doesn't rely as much on his athletisism like Dream. The biggest point in the argument that gives Duncan vs (Hakeem in his first 11 seasons) no chance for Duncan to be better, is level of competition. Just look at the Stat line in the playoffs. Dream's competition is so good. Hakeem vs Kareem Hakeem vs Parish, Walton Hakeem vs K. Malone, Ostertag, and whoever Hakeem vs Oakley, Ewing, Mason (this front line in their defensive prime would completely take Duncan out of his game) Hakeem vs Barkley, Klein, and whoever Hakeem vs Robinson, Rodman (this would be very tough line for Duncan too) Dream vs Shaq, Grant And look up how Duncan has faired in the playoffs against good defensive front lines. What comes to mind for me is, Duncan with Robinson vs Shaq and whoever Duncan without Robinson vs Shaq and whoever Duncan vs Wallace and the Pistons (05 Finals, Duncan's shooting percentage is bad) Duncan vs Gooden and the cavs(07 Cavs are the worst team to ever to make it to the finals, but they did have a good defensive front line and Duncan didn't do so hot. Afterall Parker was the MVP.) Dream and Shaq in their prime would always be the best player on their team in a playoff series. Regardless of Kobe, Drextler, or whoever.
supporting cast does not mean just 1 or 2 players...its the whole roster, depth, athleticism and so forth dream went to the finals with sampson, dream won 2 rings with drexler, cassell and horry, dream went to the wcf with barkley and drexler (no depth) duncan has always had a cast of teammates around him with depth.
Some good points. Another is if you actually look at Duncan best years, and the years he got MVPs, Shaq was scoring more (total and efficiency), had a higher PER, and was the most dominant player in the playoffs while leading his team to the 3 peat. Thus actually in Duncan's best years, he was the second best player and second best big in the league. But this isn't a knock on Duncan--those years he got MVPs he was playing better than any individual has in the last 15 years with the exception of Jordan, Shaq and Hakeem, more a matter of recognizing how dominant Shaq was in the early 00s amd when their primes overlapped Shaq was better.
Hakeem would win in every argument but Tim D has more titles.Titles don't decide who is better player.Than Robert Horry is the best player in the league.Duncan surely fits in top 50 all time but compareing him to Hakeem is like compareing T-Mac-J-Rich or Kobe-Finley.
Dream was awesome, but duncan is pretty good too. There is too much Duncan hate. HE has 4 rings and probably will have 5 or 6 when his career is done. It is not like the rockets were making the finals every year with dream, and I would say the west is more stacked now then it used to be.
What is the hate in calling Duncan the 4rd best player of the last 15 years and a top 15 player of all time? Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan--pretty special company of players he is with, and better than a number of other future hall of famers in these period that will include Karl Malone, Barkley, Kobe, Nash, Wade, Lebron, Iverson, Garnett, Robinson, Clyde, Kidd, Payton, Stockton, Pippen, Dirk, etc. But no, the teams were a lot better in the 90s than the 00s, Western conference included. In particular there were lots of hall of fame bigs roaming around, not to mentioned deeper more well rounded teams (Houston, Sonics, Jazz, Suns, Spurs, Blazers). For instance, the Jazz team that made the WCF this year or the Suns team that made the WCF last year would have won maybe 1 game in the opening round in the 90s.
