Who do you think is better Prime PIPPEN or Present KOBE?

Just pointing out that Kobe, as well as Pippen, can be "embarassed" by a young athletic player on the break. For the record, I vote Pippen in this poll.

 

Cat: REALLY?!?!

 

I am sorry to say but penny in his younger years was a s nasty as they come I mean he had so much handle. Also he was the only player in history to average better than 50% fg, 5+ Asst, and 20+ points. Until someone else approaches those numbers I think that he was better that most until his leg problems. As far as Pip to say that he was not one of the greatest perimeter defenders ever is just dumb. He and Michael were the greatest Duo ever, and notice that I said duo.

 

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Is an impromptu retro caption contest now in order?

 

Pippen. Kobe is certainly better on the offensive end, but Pippen is clearly a better rebounder and defender. Kobe is very good on defense (I don't think he quite warrants an all-defensive first team selection over Christie, Payton and McGrady, but he's close), but Pippen changed the game on defense. Pippen is also only the SECOND PLAYER IN HISTORY TO LEAD HIS TEAM IN ALL FIVE MAJOR STATISTICAL CATEGORIES (points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks). He did it in '95 (Dave Cowens was the first to do it). Kobe is great, but Pippen was ridiculous good.

 

no doubt Kobe he is way better

i coudn't say it better.

Pippen is a loser, who only won because of Jordan. ok so kobe has shaq. he is a better player, we will see if he wil win games without shaq on your team. i know pippen didn't, he failed every time without Jordan, and then complained about his team. What did you expect Scottie another team with Jordan???

 

wow, i hate quitten as much as the next guy, but if that stat is true then damn that is impressive. i mean like when steve led us in pts, rebs, assts it means there just wasn't a good enough rebounder around to take that category but that is still huge. i never thought i'd respect quitten for anything again but i have to for that.

as for the debate, gotta go with kobe b/c he is the most complete offensive player in the game right now (well he and duncan but duncan is a big man so really can't compare) and can play very good defense, and is so damn clutch it's not even funny. i hate the lakers, and by association don't like kobe but i respect the hell out of his game.

obviously quitten was an outstanding defender who literally could do as much damage as an interior blocking guy like hakeem (although not as consistently as an inside guy) and was quite skillful at making bigtime defensive plays. however, i think kobe's offensive advantage + clutchness outweighs scottie's defensive advantage. and kidrock8, i'm pretty sure he didn't give up a great shot for every steal. i doubt opposing coaches were thinking "yes there he goes after the ball again, i love it when quitten's on the floor, offense is so ez then."

and about stars not playing defense 100% of the time, not only do i almost think you have to expect it, but you guys seem to exaggerate defensive laziness way too much. all this "gets lit up like a christmas tree" and "only plays when he wants to" stuff is crazy. hey, if you guard good players, they will light you up occasionally regardless of effort. also, there is only so much energy to go around, if you are required to be your team's everything on offense it can only be expected that you don't have 100% to give on D no matter how dedicated you are to working hard. that's why the bowens of the world can put 100% into D. hell that's one of the main things that always impressed me so much about hakeem is that he was our everything on O and D. i don't really know how he did it night in and night out. he either scored or created the open shot and then had to control the D boards while protecting the lane and guarding any quality opposing centers. quite amazing.

 

I agree that Pippen was good then, but I also remember when Phil Jackson called a play for Kukoc to take the final shot in a playoff game against the Knicks and Pippen was upset and refused to go in for the final play. Kukoc ended up making the game winning shot.

 

Pippen shut down Magic Johnson, who had 32 triple doubles in the playoffs. I hate him as much as anyone, but he could play defense against the best. That's more production than Kobe can give you.

However, I would build a franchise around Kobe. He's the better leader.

 

And that year Pippen's team didn't make out of of the semis. Also I am sure Grant Hill, Clyde, Magic or Hakeem had had years with similar or better numbers even if they didn't lead his team in all 5 (maybe 4 of 5). Notice not once did Pippen lead his team in points when his teammate quit playing baseball nor did he lead his team in rebounds any year Dennis or Grant was playing--what I am saying is that achievment (leading his team in all 5) reflects a fine season PLUS the right surrounding conditions. To me the fact Pippen has six rings yet not a single league nor championship MVPs tells it all as far as how he stands with the greatist players.

Don't get me wrong, Pippen was a great role player. But his offense was never dominant enough to be the centerpiece of a trully great team. That is what distinguishes him from greater players the last decade in a half like MJ, Hakeem, Bird, Magic, Malone, Duncan and Barkley. He also probably wasn't as good as on any single season as Anfernee at his best, Kobe now, D-Rob, and a few other players. His offense just wasn't as good as these folks. Plus, it is not like his defense was Hakeem's or Russell's level or anything--that trully could wreak havoc on a whole opponents offense.

 

Humble but Hungry my arse who are you kidding Kobe is the most egotistical guy out there. I mean it even took him a while to know that Shaq was the go to guy with good reason, and he takes more shots than Shaq now. What is that? Not only is that true but he still averages less ppg. And remember that Pippen did average 22 points per game which is not exactly exclusively defense. And T-mac is the best defensive guard out there but he is still more prolific then Kobe on offense.

 

Far from it. He is equal to Kobe defensively, and both are very good. The problem is that Kobe and T-Mac are very inconsistent defenders because they turn their defense on and off.

 

Kobe, ...not even close....I know I'm late, but WOW! He is looking so good now in the playoffs. Walton hit it on the head when he said Shaq is the most valuable player in the NBA, but right now Kobe is the best player in the NBA...MY mind agrees.

 

kidrock8, I've heard a lot of stupid suff, but saying Pippen was "not a defensive stopper" might just take the cake. He always took the tough assignments (Magic, Payton, Drexler, Steve Smith, etc.), and Jordan got the credit. No way should Jordan be on all those all-defensive teams. He was always guarding the second banana! And as you say, steals make not the defender. By the way, who alleged that Pippen was still in his prime in '99? No one. He wasn't. We all know that. You're just making that up.

Pippen did just fine when Jordan left. From '93 (when Jordan was there) to '94 (when he left), the Bulls dropped just two regular-season games with essentially the same team minus Jordan. He WAS capable of leading a team. When Jordan came back the next year with 19 games left in the regular season, the Bulls lost in the playoffs because they no longer had a great rebounder (Horace Grant). Don't talk to me about Jordan having court rust, either. Intense practice and 19 regular-season games is enough to get back in the flow (especially for the supposed "greatest player ever").

 

Jerry West carried the scoring load with Elgin Baylor for most of his career and was also one of the greatest defensive guards of all time. Steals and blocks were only recorded in his last season as a pro. In that last season he averaged 2.61 steals and 0.74 blocks in 31 minutes per game. That's 4 steals and 1.15 blocks per 48 minutes. First of all, he was obviously much better in his prime. Secondly, he was only 6-2 and not an overwhelmingly great athlete. He also was averaging 20.3 points that year (31.4 per 48 minutes), which means he was also carrying the offense.

You don't have to be a role player to play defense 100% of the time. Ask Hakeem.