Well, I don't think it's about crime or off-court issues...the same things happen in the NFL (i'd say worse things) but the fans are still there. It's easy to market a felon if you throw a helmet and football pads on him but most of "corporate America" is put off by a guy with visible tats and corn rows...even if he's a nice guy who has never been in trouble. I can just see Stern weep every time Lebron gets a new tattoo or Dwight does a new rap dance...there goes a season ticket holder...
You bring up an interesting point. Gamblers are a pretty important contingent to lose in your fanbase! Of course, the only way to circumvent the issue is if we decide to officiate the game much more loosely, like in the past. No more stupid touch fouls and flopping!
While there are many black players (70%) in the NFL, many of the face of the franchise guys (QBs) are white (Manning, Brady, Farve, etc.).
With the athletes in the NBA today it’s amazing that the ratings are not as hi as could be and fans are not as enthusiastic about the sporting event. There are several reasons for the lost in interest in the sport. 1 Style of play. I really blame coaching for this issue because the coaches have became more control freaks and want to control the tempo of the game. I dilute the entertainment section of the game and takes away from what these athletes can actually do on the floor. 2 Rule changes. There have been several rule changes in the league that was actually meant to solve the problems of style of play but had the opposite effect. Hand checking was taken out of the game in thoughts of speeding up tempo, but the opposite has happen because its too difficult to defend a man bring the ball up the court with ought getting a cheap foul because you cant extend the arm. Now since players don’t defend full court which allows point guards are relax and now walk the ball up the floor, which takes more time off the shot clock. Another rule change that is killing viewership is the illegal defense rule change. There was a time which a player could not set in the lane not guarding anyone and no one could be doubled which out the ball. This is a key reason why there is less of an inside presence in the game today. Teams are now allowing to double post men which takes them completely out the game. 3 Scouting Players by Potential. There is a lot of players out of the league now who are great shooters and smart players but because teams make draft day decagons off of only athletic ability and feel everything else can be coached up it the game is diluted. The role player has less impact because more can’t play a role player type of game. Because some players were spot up shooters and cant get on the floor because of their athletic deficiencies. 4 Ticket prices. This is my biggest reason. The league has fouled a way to eliminate the hardcore fans. With rising ticket prices and less and less people receiving an economic growth less and less enthusiastic fans are being taken away from the arenas. What fans blame it on are the player salvers but that is completely wrong. Ticket prices have limited effect on player salaries because of the money players receive are mainly from the television networks. Fans used to play player salaries but not anymore. Fans actually pay for owners growths.
The whole rigged thing came up on the Atlanta Falcons Message board when discussing the Hawks and their chances if they face Cleveland. Most of the Hawks fans said the NBA has been rigged and that Stern will make sure that Lebron is in the Finals. I then brought up that if the NBA has been rigged there is no way the Spurs would have had 3 Championships. But yeah I think there are multiple reasons why people don't like the NBA Image People think it is rigged Those seem to always be the excuse.
As a casual bettor, the NBA is ridiculous. I have no idea how they calculate the spreads and the over/unders, but its dead on so many times it almost makes me wonder.
that just goes back to my first point about the NBA talent being thin compared to what it was. couple years ago Chuck Hayes was our starter and he can't even shoot a freaking free throw. still think that the biggest issue is the poor officiating and rules.
Its amazing because I'd suggest the NBA is one of the two or three most followed sports leagues world wide, so for an Aussie fan its hard to imagine that the NBA isn't as well supported in the U.S. where its played. I think the NBA does suffer from some image problems, even if they are old and out dated (And people over look that other sports have much bigger problems with money, drugs and players breaking the law). I'm not sure about the racial thing, I guess you lot living over there would be better placed to talk about that. The NBA must have more white players now than it ever had when it got popular in the 80'd though. So many international players.....I'd be shocked if its racism.
Reffing and the "individual over team" play/style. It ruins (ruined) the game. Too subjective. It's so bad, fans and sportswriters have come up with a myriad of excuses to ignore the reffing problem. Superstars can travel, they've "earned" the respect (wtf?). All those lousy calls did not effect the outcome of the game, had they made more shots, it would not have mattered (wtf?). Some games are going to be called tighter than others. (wtf?) No other league is as insane in protecting the "judgement" of it's refs. Think about that. It makes a mockery of the game when you are beholden to rules so subjective and yet utterly unquestionable. That's not all the NBA's fault. The players have gotten so much quicker and bigger. It's HARD to ref the game at the pace it's played now. I'm not sure what solutions should be made but I'd start with: 1) make the court bigger. 2) eliminate the "charge circle". A charge should be called when an offensive player initiates contact and does not attempt to go around the defensive player. If the defensive player impedes forward progress via contact, it's a block. This is fundamental basketball. If you stay in front (move your feet!) that's good defense. 3) make it completely unacceptable for the refs to call fouls they DID NOT SEE. 4) clean the post play up
while the officiating is horrendous leading one to believe the game might be rigged, i don't think the average person actively conceptualizes that to the point that they would actively avoid the game - that doesn't make sense. i seriously doubt anyone is like 'screw this, the NBA is rigged, i'm not watching anymore!" it's not something that explicit. there has to be some subtle factor by which a person isn't making an active choice to not watch but is just naturally turned off. that's why i think race and the hip hop culture are too glaring to dismiss. in general, the vast majority of nba fans are minorities and you will subsequently find that among minorities who do watch sports, most overwhelmingly identify the nba as their favorite sport. it's not inherently racist so much as identification - corporate america just can't really identify with hip hop culture. to further prove this point, while blacks and hispanics are obviously ingrained into hip hop culture, just observing any high school or college campus, you'll find that east asians and south asians also have overwhelmingly come to embrace it and claim it within their own cultural identity. how many white guys do you see on the courts wearing jordan shorts and going to the crossover every time they touch it? few. conversely, this is embraced by minorities as the norm. i would also add that there's a big distinction between not being able to identify with something and actively being 'turned off' by it. i don't think whites are actively 'turned off' by hip hop culture, generally speaking. noone says 'omg look at these thugs, ugh i can't watch this!' society isn't inherently racist. it's more of a passive unintended response where they just aren't identifying with the culture of the game so gradually shift lean towards other sports. as others have said, the difference between the nfl and the nba is that the hip hop culture isn't easily observed because it's hidden with helmets and pads. and there's no distinction between black 'new-age' players with white players as there is in basketball where it's become almost accepted stereotype that white guys shoot and come off picks while black guys dunk and can dribble the ball in ways unimaginable 25 years ago. the fact that football is only played once a week also has significance. what should the nba do about it? not a damn thing. i don't think the league should be actively trying to transform something it has naturally become just to appease a portion of the population. the players are who they are - if people can't identify with it, then that's their problem. jesus christ this post was long. how embarrassing.
Rigged? Well some games were for sure (donaghy?). But as a whole, no. The problem with the officiating is endemic to the style of play en vogue, and the horridly subjective way in which the rules are applied. At any given time, the game can be totally ruined by reffing - and that's not bad calls per say, but the whole dynamic can shift if a game is called "tighter" or "looser". This does not (can not) happen in any other professional sport.
For me at least, the refereeing aspect is frustrating, and the Donaghy episode made it worse. Before I had some suspicions but I just took it that the refs were incompetent. The Donaghy case made me lose a lot of respect for the NBA as a whole. Now everytime I see a badly called game I can't help but wonder. I think a good comparison is the plate umpire in baseball. They have as much power, maybe even more power over the result of a game than NBA refs, and some call bigger or smaller strike zones. I don't follow it that much so maybe you guys in the US can confirm this, but MLB doesn't seem to have the same type of umpiring credibility problems that the NBA has (they have roid credibility problems tho! haha).
this. almost to a man, anyone i know that used to love the nba that does not watch it now cites this and flopping (which is the fault of the officials). if they continue to clean it up (i've seen a world of difference this year) with lebron still so young, i think the nba will get more popular.
I'd love to agree here, but ultimately, the NBA is an entertainment venue here for the purpose of making money. They gotta do what they gotta do to get eyes on the TV and butts in the seats. I do love how the NBA is embraced around the world, however (especially compared to other American leagues). I dunno, I guess it's just nice to know there are actually people out there that appreciate the league as much as we do. Might get me to start watching a little more soccer...
to everyone who is saying that the officiating is the cause, how many of the people who are actually turning away from the game are turning away due to this? what i mean is that we here, as die-hard nba fans, have grown cynical and have lost some interest in the game because of the state of officiating. but we still follow the sport, just not to the level we possibly could. but the question is about people who already didn't religiously follow the nba to begin with. i seriously doubt those people are aware of the disparity in quality of officiating between the leagues to the point where they have decided to not watch the nba due to it. noone says 'man i tried to watch a few nba games but the refs sucks so forget this, back to MLB!" it's only 'man i am a season ticket holder and the officiating is getting worse every year i'm sick of this.' it's a crucial distinction. the people who aren't already watching aren't turned off by something they aren't aware of or have little exposure to. it's only us diehards that are sick of it.
Not really. If the diehards are sick of it, do you think some new potential fan of the NBA will accept it? The idea that the NBA is losing it's "diehard fans" should not be glossed over. That's a bad sign. I'm one of them. I rarely watch the games anymore, and when I do, I find myself beyond frustrated. Still love the sport, love my team, and enjoy being at the toybox two or three times a year, but more often than not I'm disgusted at what it's become - and most of that centers on the refs, one way or another.
Lot’s of excellent points in this thread. Interesting read. None of my white friends really give a crap about the Rockets or the NBA. (Incidentally, that’s probably why I spend so much time on this site…it’s literally the only place I can get my fix of both.) Anyway, most of them say it’s because the NBA is too “thuggish” like some others have said. Also that there are too many really young players in the league (straight out of high school or with only 1 year of college) that they can’t identify with. I try every year to get a bunch of people together to go somewhere and watch the Rockets in the playoffs, but no one ever wants to go. Of course, if it’s the Superbowl, a college football game, or even an Astros game, it’s no problem. Just not the Rockets or the NBA. Of course, the ticket prices are WAY too expensive. We went to the Astros game last week and I spent $42 for 2 tickets behind 1st base 14 rows up. $42 can’t even get you one ticket for a Rockets game, unless you want to sit in the upper deck behind the basket. Also, teams don’t really have identities anymore. Every offensive scheme looks the same, every defensive scheme looks the same. There are no real team rivalries in the NBA anymore. Remember the good old days of the Celtic/Laker rivalry? You had the Celtics, with their ugly players, ugly arena, ugly style, ugly fans vs. the Lakers with their smiling superstar, slick arena filled with Hollywood stars, and their Showtime style of play. Now, every arena, every fanbase (except utah…), every uniform, every style of play, it just all looks and feels the same city to city.
Racism. I know baseball and the NFL have black people, BUt The NBA is much more individual. The players put their personality into the game, which is what I love about it, but if you don't like black people it turns you off. Also I've noticed that sports fans that don't like the NBA also tend not to like the more flamboyant black nfl stars ( the receivers ( to, ocho cinco ), the deions, the pacmans ).
I have had this internal debate recently (off and on to be honest): Why do I even care about any sport? Nothing I do affects the outcome, but the outcome can affect me. Critical thinking on the matter has me ponder, why do we waste so many resources on something so completely inconsequential? My only answer is that it is a way to keep the sheep in line. bahhhhh. But, this is a reason why I'm considering ceasing any watching of the nba/sports from this point on. And yes, my other post was, nba refs ****ing suck.
I think your partially right. It's not about racism..its about attitude. NBA players come off as cocky, arrogant & caring only about money & themselves. Yes, thats the same reason they don't like the Deions, Pacmans & Ocho Cinco's. Even for me, I still have a hard time accepting Ron Artest, but I think Tim Duncan is a great role model for young people. Unfortunately, because Tim Duncan isn't flashy and arrogant, he'll never get the press as a Lebron in the NBA. If Duncan was in the NFL & had all those championships, he'd have much more press coverage. Its really the NBA image to celebrate the cocky stars and ignore the great players that aren't arrogant.
