They've historically been net exporters. Japan is starting to slump further in that category with everyone getting o.l.d. America's category is much harder nut to crack. We're a full on importer and is services/consumption driven. The illegal/undocumented situation creates a second class of cheaper labor to drive down prices and also boost productivity numbers.** The CBO projects this "Biden surge" that no one liked would add $1.2T over a ten year span. They've extended social security's immediate solvency issue but I don't have any numbers offhand to give to what extent. For comparison with total immigration policy, it's definitely a bigger issue in Europe as people are becoming increasingly frustrated with their immigrant populations. YouTubers and Xit posters think immigrants are the problem with Britain's decline, but the Brits have been dropping even before Brexit. My opinion is that immigrants need strong gov institutions towards full integration and also cheaper housing for everyone in order to offset it's immediate disadvantages. I also think all forms of admission should have the culture of the host country strong armed into them. It's harder to do that when demographics shift to 40+ with decreased tax revenues and productivity/GDP declines. Even with illegal immigration we also seem to attract the more skilled variety compared to other countries. There were stories of Chinese undocumented crossing the California border. They definitely didn't come here to pick vegetables. I also think with someone like Steven Miller being one of Trump's trusted staff, they'll tighten legal immigration policy like they did the first time. It was mostly unseen if you didn't know someone with a visa, but the delays were deliberate and noticeable. **Is it right to continue a policy that cements second class citizens and also drive down labor costs for everyone else? That's something we all have to figure out as it's been going on since Reagan. We have a few generations used to this status quo and no one really knows how the economy will adjust while the workforce is aging. Deglobalization is also a Trump platform so we'll likely see a lot of spending to either save companies from rising production costs and/or the consumer needing to cope with higher prices. Who really knows? For a nativist, it's probably more effective to deport many, add criminal penalities to all employers, both corporate and mom n pops, and then add more paths to citizenship, but I doubt either party really wants that. The situation in Springfield is telling where, yes the town was dying, and yes the immigrants added blood and activity to the city, but it wasn't their city anymore. The natives still thought Springfield was a declining shithole but it wasn't their shithole. The fantasies Trump alludes to taking it back generally mean the ownership is clearly theirs but the benefits of immigrants are still there but largely unseen. There's no havings and eatings of that cake. But I guess we all have front row seats to see what really happens
I will repeat again as someone who works in the construction field I had a project significantly delayed and price increase when the contractor couldn’t find enough drywallers when Trump was last president. This was with the courts and members of the administration restraining some of the most extreme plans. The labor market is already tight and we’ve seen many businesses suffer because they can’t find enough workers. It defies common sense that deporting and threatening a significant portion of the labor force will be a good thing. This isn’t a matter of debate anymore though. Y’all voted for it so we’re going to see what happens.
yet, your can' t name one. btw. Japan is the 4th largest economy in the world, a decline from 2nd place. Japan has illegal aliens from Korea, Taiwan, Phillipines; a little from China, Portugal and So America Japan had been slumping since the early 1990s, when it was the 2nd largest economy in the world, supposedly, was ready to leapfrog the US economy Japan hasn't been able to recover from its decline started in the 1990s; some of the reasons include lack of low-cost labor to compete against much-lower-cost Chinese mfg lack of liquidity to print $, or explode the balance sheet of its central bank, in a manner like the US if only Japan can QE like the US
You really need to learn to read. You're claiming I said things I never did. So either learn to read or stop being dishonest/a liar. 1. I can name plenty of OECD economies functioning perfectly fine without 10s of millions of illegal immigrants. Start with Iceland, South Korea, Japan. 2. Having the 4th largest economy in the world with the 12th most populace country is still... impressive.. just because it didn't leap frog the United States doesn't mean the Japanese don't have a strong economy and high standard of living. 3. I never said Japan had no illegal immigrants. Please point out where I said that.
heed your own advise. you used Japan as an eg, whose economy has been stuck in the mud since the 1990s, when it was the second largest economy, since then it has declined to 4th place something is not right, when it has been stuck in mud for over 30 year, unable to reverse the trend as recently as 2008, Iceland had a volcanic banking meltdown, Japan has beeen stuck in the mud sincethe early 1990s South Korea has been caught in the cross fire of the China / US trade war, kinda stuck in mud, but not as deep as Japan
you do know that Iceland's GDP of ~~ $33 billion is less than half that of Rhode Island's $88 billion, no?
Heed my own advise? When did I claim you said something you didn't? Japan is the 4th largest economy in the world. That's a "strong" economy by anyone's understanding of the word even if it was the 2nd strongest economy thirty years ago. Did Japan not have a strong economy in 1990 when it was second in the world with little-to-no illegal immigrants? Huh.. You're trying to make the case Japan doesn't have a strong economy because it's gone from 2nd to 4th... which is asinine but ok... So you want to use "current trajectory" as the standard for what constitutes a strong economy. Iceland’s economy is one of the fastest-growing in the OECD https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/economics/iceland-s-performance-is-strong_ac395932-en Oh but we can't say Iceland has a strong economy either because their economy is too small. So, obviously, whatever economy I point to as "strong" that doesn't make widespread use of illegal immigrants, @adoo will find some reason to say it doesn't count for some reason. . What a dishonest person you are. The U.S. had a recession in 2008 as well... does it not have a strong economy? I guess nobody has a strong economy according to @adoo. Fascinating.
dizzing height of willful ignorance anyone who understand economics knows that it takes alot of bad economics to sink the #2 economy to 4th place, since then germany and china have leapfrog Japan.. Germany has lots of illegal alien China has some (from both Koreas, India, Pakistan, Thailand, Myannmar, Vietnam)
Neo Nazis parading through Columbus in celebration of their victory https://abcnews.go.com/US/masked-group-marches-ohio-neighborhood-swastikas-flags/story?id=115937210
The non partisan numbers and estimates are that since 2000 there has roughly been 9-12 million illegal immigrants in the USA… the overwhelming majority of the time between 10-11 million… very consistent. When asked where the 20 million number came from - Trump’s people did not respond. There appears to be no valid basis for it - but Trump lying is like calling rain wet… Something to keep in mind- many illegal immigrants that enter the USA leave, some even go back and forth over decades of time. Removing 10,000,000 people from the labor force would have catastrophic economic impacts, especially with the Boomers Generation being so large and dying out.
Right. The US economy has had between 8.5 and 12 million illegal immigrants in the USA - the vast majority of them employed in blue collar and service jobs for the last 25 years. Im sure removing a population the size of Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston and Dallas will not have any negative impacts on inflation and the economy in general.
Japan has serious economic problems because of their population situation and their government is well aware of it. Having said that - none of those nations had economic success by rounding up and removing 10 million people. A conversation on US immigration policy going forward is necessary and potentially fruitful - that is not the same as deporting over 10 million people who have largely been in the USA a long time. Also the idea of “legal” and “illegal” immigration in the USA was largely foreign in the history of the US.
When the brunt of the mass migration was from Europe, the concept of "legally entering" wasn't a concept. Everyone entered "illegally". It was when there was a demographic shift of migrants where majority were coming from the global south rather than Europe did the concept of "illegal immigrant" become a thing.
In some ways it is an insincere argument. The discussion should be on immigration reform going forward. However, MAGA ran on deporting 20,000,000 illegal aliens through using the military and police forces. It will never happen - the non partisan estimate has the cost at one trillion dollars. The economic impact on all levels of production, transportation and distribution would be catastrophic. Prices would explode for basic things like groceries, restaurants, construction and childcare. Couple that with MAGA tariffs and the cost of everything in WalMart would double or triple. I don’t think Trump is stupid enough to actually attempt these things - although people like Stephen Miller are sincere - but even if they did, they would be voted out of office faster than Joe Biden was put in mothballs after his debate debacle.
They didn't pass any legislation the first time around and relied on the media to publicize children being sent to ICE boxes to do the heavy lifting of "getting things done" for his voters. He can pretty much do nothing as long as he signs grossly negligent Executive Orders that draws headlines. Meanwhile Congress passes the stuff mega donors truly want and blame Dems for obstructing progress on immigration.
I never said it would have no economic impact. I pointed out plenty of OECD economies have had plenty of success with little to no illegal immigration. Illegal immigration has not been a fundamental necessity for a first rate economy and standard of living with plenty of examples. Heck, some have had success with almost no immigration at all.
