I know Barry has been a good player over the years but with his age being a factor and he is really injury prone, is this the player we really want to get?
I definitely love what Barry brings to the table...unbelievable shooting from the three, assists, boards...BUT, I'm starting to lean towards liking the Snow idea only if they were going to take spoon or MoT. I think we are decent at point now with lue/gaines/wilkes, my main concern is getting a tough big man to back up yao. Currently: PG: Lue/Gaines/Wilkes SG: McGrady/Nachbar/Pike SF: JJ/Padgett PF: Howard/Taylor/Spoon C: Yao Liabilities(in order): Spoon/Taylor/Pike/Padgett Needs: Backup C, Starting PG Does anyone else agree that backup C is more pressing than PG, mainly because MoT/Spoon scares the hell out of me as a backup C?
1. Troy Hudson - played with tmac, can hit the 3, penetrate, score, distribute, and play defense. (health is a concern) 2. Derek Fisher - has played well with dominant 2-guard and center. can hit the 3 and play defense. (isnt an all around pg) 3. Eric Snow - defense, game managability, can flourish without the ball in his hands.
I agree with your list. Fisher and Arroyo seem like he best bets. Since Arroyo is a RFA, could we not do a sign and trade? Maybe send the TE for Arroyo; although that would be kinda ironic in a way... Then with the MLE we could pick up a bruiser PF (Erick Dampier, Mark Blount, Okur, Foyle, McDyess) to grab rebounds and block shots. If Arroyo isn't a great fit for JVG, then we could always sign Fisher with the MLE and trade the TE for a good PF.
If we want to win very soon we need Fisher or Snow, they're not young but those are the only two PG's on this list that would really fit for a win now appoach. We need an experienced, intelligent PG, not necessarily a scorer but someone who can hit a big shot when he has to. I admit that I haven't seen enough of Arroyo to form a true opinion about him. I'd still like to get Barry for his scoring ability alone.
Seems to me that Lue will give the Rockets one of the better backup point guards in the league. That's something we haven't been able to say for quite a while! Thoughts?
If Arroyo can play for Jerry Sloan, he can play for Van Gundy. Of all the players above, he's the only one under 30. That's important considering this team is still young and will need a few years to develop chemistry. If we take any of the other players, by the time we become a contender, they'll be too old to be an everyday player. Plus, Utah plays team basketball and Sloan makes everyone overacheive. That experience will benefit Arroyo greatly and would be a great complementary player on this team.
1) Brent Barry 2) Carlos Arroyo 3) Troy Hudson Snow - ok for a couple of years but his contract is way too long. Fisher - Just a gut that he will not be the player we are looking for.
with Lue on board, changes PG target(s) From my understanding Lue had to have decline his option to be included in the trade, so he is a Rocket PG next year, either as a starter or back-up. This is good, because without Francis the Rockets did not have a minimally servicable starter. Having Lue changes the next PG target. Lue is a pretty good shooter with pretty good range and is pretty good about taking care of the ball. But having him drops fellow shrimpies like Alston (FA), Hudson (FA), Atkins (potential trade), or Boykins (potential trade) pretty much off the list. Before being assured of getting Lue, Alston was among my highest targets. I do think overall he is probably a little better than Lue (better defense), but they have a lot of similarities so it doesn't make that much sense to go for Alston. Now what we want is a PG to provide different dimension(s). For example, size, defense, toughness, flexibility to play at the 2, It also makes the following guys important targets with the MLE or 1.7 mil exemption or through trades: -Barry (FA, by far overall #1 choice, 3 year full MLE), -Snow (trade, though I don't like his contract), -AWill (ditto as Snow) -Crawford (RFA, most of MLE?) -Fisher (FA, 1.7 mil exempt to 2.5 mil/1/2 MLE) -Arroyo (FA, ditto with Fisher) -Daniels (FA according to PB and realgm, RFA according to ESPN--I think the former are correct)(1.7 mil exempt?) I personally lean towards more proven vets given the rest of the Rockets line-up and given all the change that is happening this offseason. That eliminates Daniels and Crawford from being top targets even if they have more upside than most. Neither has managed a team efficiently for any length of time. Of the vets, Barry is my top choice. Him and Lue share the point and he backs up Tmac at the 2. Hard to argue with that. The lone drawback is quickness and defense, but Lue covers the quickness and I think Barry's other plusses (best court vision of the lot, best shooter, tallest) outweigh the rest. We have always have Tmac or JJ to play a man Barry can't handle. Barry can be our next park the PG at the 3 line like Kenny Smith/Ron Harper. Snow or AW bring toughness and both know how to run teams. AW has better range on his shot, but is coming off a down year due to injury. The drawback to both is there killer salaries, I don't know if I would want them for a TE without dumping one of our contracts (Spoon?) or getting something else in return (picks). Fisher does seem like the next choice, but he better not expect to make more than the 3 mil he would of for the Lakers. I am not sure as many assume he opted out of the Lakers for $ anyway, might have been just to get himself the hell away from Payton, Kobe, and that lockerroom. If he will sign for the 1.7 exemption, sure take him, or maybe up to half the MLE (2.5 mil). But remember this is a guy coming off a career low in FG (35%) and 3FG (29%) and only had 2.3 assists per game. Fisher could be a solid role player, but he is no workhorse over the regular season in this stage of his career like many seem to think he is. Arroyo is fairly intriguing to me. Will only be 25 soon, decent size at 6'2' 200. Solid shooting 44% FG, 33%3 (needs to be improved, but not so bad he won't be adequate or better than adequate at the 3 ball with defenders swarming elsewhere) on an overachieving Utah team. 2nd on the team in steals behind AK47, average for a PG--but if he wasn't playing fundamental defense Sloan would not have played him 28 MPG. Flip side is those failed guys out of the Utah system (Shandon, Eisley), but Arroyo did not have a Malone or Stockton to make him look better than he is. I just don't have the sense Arroyo will totally fail like those guys. He ran the (overachieving) team all year long, starting 71 of 71 played. I think he will be decent somewhere else, maybe better than decent. Real tough call between him (more upside) and Fisher (more known quantity) honestly. If nothing else, if Fisher won't sign for the 1.7 exemption or close to it, and Arroyo will, it would be hello Carlos. Finally, here are some other vets I would pursue for the vet min for 3rd stringers/injury insurance (700K): L. Hunter (FA), Anth Johnson (FA), Strickland (FA) & Sura (FA). Or if we do that Ollie-Pike thing that is also OK for a 3rd stringer, especially if we have guy like Barry--who can also would do what we hoped Pike would do and then some. Anyone else I am missing? Note to admin, please merge with other PG thread.
I'm not exactly sure what everyone in here considers a good 3PT %, but I would be saying a guy can "hit 3's" if he shot 29% from beyond the arc last year. And that shot against SA was about as lucky as it gets.
Fisher had a subpar year last year. But he is still a career 35 plus % 3 point shooter. He's a good outside shooter.
Defense is #1 priority to me. I want a lock-down defender that can prevent penetration. With Cato gone, I would not be surprised if Yao picks up a lot of fouls next season trying to cover the defensive mistakes from our guards.
i would say its down to barry then arroyo for me. check the stats, not just the contracts. these are the best 2 fits there are. barry gets the nod because of being a vet leader and a GREAT shooter. arroyo is 25, and has the skills and mindset we are looking for. if we get either one, i will consider us conference finals bound.
Very interesting. For me, its really down to two choices, either Derek Fisher or Eric Snow. Considering Tyronn Lue will be on the roster next season and tons of change has taken place, getting a very solid veteran like Snow to kind of tie things together is VERY intriguing. My guess is that Philly may be willing to throw in a draft pick like the Rockets did with Glen Rice and the Jazz did with Tom Gugliotta due to Snow's hefty salary. I fully agree that Snow is somewhat overpaid at 5 yrs approx 30 mil left on his deal, but a PG tandem of Snow/Lue would be VERY solid. JVGs system is based on pressuring the ball and slowing down the tempo of the game. To execute this well, he has needed a PG like Snow who plays under control, makes good decisions, defends well and really does not make too many mistakes. Of every PG mentioned, none of them have the ability to run a team AND defend like Snow. The huge drawback ofcourse is Snow's lack of 3 pt shooting range, but I really feel with a solid 3 pt shooter in Lue backing him up along with other scorers on the team that would not be a huge issue. The way things are shaping up, Yao, T-Mac and Howard should combine for 60-70 PPG. The rest of the players do not really need to provide a whole lot offensively, but instead need to fill roles and provide defensive toughness. In order to be an elite team, this ballclub will not need much more than 92-93 PPG assuming they maintain the defensive intensity of last season.
Hinrich-- I wish. Fish is familiar and facile with playing among all-star, all-world dudes at the 2 & 5; he's achieved some success; he's available. The fit and timing seem good for him. Whatever we wind up with should be an improvement at the 1. Dribblemania should only be viewed on the Ocho...
The other I would say is Alvin Williams. He does have the 3 point range Snow does not, but had a weak season last year do to injury. If his health check out--and the Rockets docs are conservative about this, not sure he isn't even better fit than Snow. Still, Snow is good except for that contract. Would Phily consider Snow and McKie (2 bad contracts) for Spoon (1 bad contracts) and the TE you think? We would only have back-up C (Foyle) to shore up then and would be SET team.
Not sure which of the many PG threads to post this in... Just thought I'd throught some info out in no particular order. Rafer Alston – Height: 6-2 Weight: 177 Born: Jul 24, 1976 (will be 28) http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3282/career Career 36.8% 3PT FG% with a career 37.4% FG%. Last year is the first time he played over 50 games in a season (1 year wonder?). Career 2.7 A/T ratio. Coming off a minimum 1 year deal with Miami so could probably be had for 1.5M-2.0M a year. Brent Barry - Height: 6-6 Weight: 203 Born: Dec 31, 1971 (will be 33) http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3017/career Career 40.7% 3PT FG% with a career 46.4% FG%. Career 2.2 A/T ratio. Will be expensive and is looking for a longer-term deal I read (3-4 years). Probably can be had for MLE (5.0-5.5M?) starting. Derek Fisher - Height: 6-1 Weight: 205 Born: Aug 9, 1974 (will be 30) http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3325/career Career 36.8% 3PT FG% with a career 39.8% FG%. Career 2.7 A/T ratio. Coming off a 3M contract with Lakers, could be had for around 3M-4M starting. Troy Hudson - Height: 6-1 Weight: 175 Born: Mar 13, 1976 (will be 29) http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3235/career Career 33.0% 3PT FG% with a career 40.5% FG%. Career 2.1 A/T ratio. Was to make around 3.0M this year but opted out. Now probably expect to get around 3.0-4.0M starting Carlos Arroyo - Height: 6-2 Weight: 202 Born: Jul 30, 1979 (will be 25) http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3585/career Career 32.5% 3PT FG% with a career 44.3% FG%. Last year was the first time player over 50 games in a season (1 year wonder?). Career 2.2 A/T ratio. Coming off a 1 year 1M deal in Utah. Probably can be had for around 1.5M-2M starting if Utah doesn’t want him. Eric Snow - Height: 6-3 Weight: 204 Born: Apr 24, 1973 (will be 32) http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3045/career Career 20.1% 3PT FG% with a career 43.2% FG%. Career 3.0 A/T ratio. Has 5 years left on his deal that will pay him 30.5M with 4.9M next year thought 2008/9 season for 7.3M Antonio Daniels - Height: 6-4 Weight: 205 Born: Mar 19, 1975 (will be 30) http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3175/career Career 33.2% 3PT FG% with a career 45.1% FG%. Career 2.8 A/T ratio. Is under contract with Seattle for 2.2M and a player option for next season at 2.2M Tyronn Lue - Height: 6-0 Weight: 178 Born: May 3, 1977 (will be 28) http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3266/career Career 38.5% 3PT FG% with a career 43.2% FG%. Career 2.7 A/T ratio. On a 1 year 1.65M contract with Houston. Steve Francis - Height: 6-3 Weight: 200 Born: Feb 21, 1977 http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3325/career Career 34.6% 3PT FG% with a career 43.1% FG%. Career 1.7 A/T ratio.
Yeah, I love Daniels too, I'd probably put him #2 on my wish list behind Arroyo, but seeing that he had a fabulous year and he's signed to a small contract I don't see any way Seattle gives him up for anything we have to offer. Of course, you could argue the same situation for Arroyo, but at least Arroyo is a restricted free agent, so we're free to drive his value up beyond what the Jazz would be inclined to pay. Heck, I'd give him 2 years at $3 milllion per year if that meant the Jazz wouldn't match... maybe even more.
I'm intrigued by the Daniels & one of Seattle bad Center contracts for Mo Taylor. Three birds with one stone?
