Seems Kirk has incredible doghouse escaping skills.... he got out of that big, rigid, hard doghouse in 2 days.
Seems Kirk has incredible doghouse escaping skills.... he got out of that big, rigid, hard doghouse in 2 days. lol. really. its ridiculous. Snyder has a big opportunity right now and he didnt bring his best to practice. He isnt goo enough to do that. So do you reward lackadaisical play in practice? especially from a guy who cannot afford every minute to practice and improve? of course you dont. 1 simple message was sent by jvg, nothing more. snyder responded and jvg rewarded him with time. dont make a mountain out of a mole hill
My theory is JVG reads this forum and takes cue from what we critics write about his coaching. You JVG apologists out there claim JVG doesn't care what people think of him, but on the other hand you whine constantly about every thread/post critical of JVG. Can't have both way, bro!
Snyder played 13 minutes. Meanwhile, Battier, in a blow out before the 4th quarter even started, logged 39. Joes JVG want him injured or burned out before the playoffs start so he has a built in excuse for failure. (of course I am not serious ) Just look at his player averages. The players he likes are playing at their maximum (even for Deke, though his minutes are not high overall, they are very high for a 40+ year old). Pop, Riley, Phil J, I can't think of any one maxing out vets and role players like JVG is, their minute distribution, even to scrubs, is quite different. They tinker and tinker and when role players are off in energy or performance they try someone else. To me it doesn't help JVG rapior with the whole team when we are up by 20+ in the late 3rd quarter or 4th and still playing starters. It just doesn't make any sense, particulary when the 5th seed is all but locked up barring an unlikely collapse by the Rockets, Utah or SA. Like I said, I think JVG brings things that are positive and some done good things for the Rockets. I have layed out results that I think should earn him more years as the coach, and I'd love to totally proven wrong where he has the team humming all the way to the championship. What the JVG can do no wrong defenders have not said is what is their criteria in results for when a coaching change should be done? Is a healthy roster and poor playoff showing (lose in 1st round or embarrased in round 2) good enough for you to rethink your backing him? How many years does he get with two of the best 10 players in the league and not at least do damage in the playoffs? I say two--if he is 0-2 it is worth it to change. Two years ago and this year (the middle one was lost due to injury of course) are his two chances. Now if Yao or Tmac goes down before the playoffs I don't know what to do, I guess as long as Tmac didn't get overused in needless situations (where I'd hold JVG some culpable) I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.
Pop, Riley, Phil J, I can't think of any one maxing out vets and role players like JVG is, wasnt kobe in the game late despite a 30 blowout loss? isnt zo getting more minutes that deke? its not JVG can do no wrong (which i dont think anyone has claimed). Its the idea that no matter what happens people will claim JVG can do no right. And that gets old. Its that JVG is a dam good NBA coach. i dont think anyone can intelligently argue against that. If you dont like him for not playing scrubs at the end of a game...fine but i think you have to at least acknowledge the bigger picture. And that is, this team isnt good enough (yet) to set it on cruise control against teams. THis team still needs to improve a great deal if it wants to be a serious contender in the playoffs. i think its much easier for keyboard jockeys to say "just play so and so on the bench" than it is for a real coach dealing with a team that has great potetial but still needs a lot of work. and yes, battier played a little much and you could have saved him 3-5 minutes...but is that really going to make a huge difference? i dont think so. but you could see the flip side and say...yes battier played a few extra minutes and tmac played a few less. there is always a trade off and if you have to limit one of those 2 players minutes, you better believe you will limit tmacs.
I have looked at the rosters and minutes of the Spurs, Heat and Rockets the last couple of years. JVG high use of non stars is particularly quite striking (everybody knows the drop off when a Yao, Tmac, Kobe, Wade, TD, Man etc leaves the court). And it isn't even based on quality of bench. For instance Pop is playing a bunch of guys worse than Snyder, Wells, Jake T, etc a lot of fairly regular minutes. He is doing what he can to keep TD, Manu and Parker fresh and healthy for the playoffs, while heavy tinking of the end of the bench to determine who he can count on later. Right now we don't know if we can rely on Snyder or Wells, or really even their best roles. JVG is running out of time to find out and burning out the vets in the process--in my opinion of course. But we will let playoff results decide whose tactic was better.
So, the tactic to use is either JVG's or Pop's. And if JVG loses in the playoffs, that means he was wrong and he should be fired. Does that about sum up your argument? Popovich is an extreme case. No other playoff team plays their starters less than him. What he does works (he has a veteran group that's been together a while and that he can trust). But most good teams, even if you look historically, don't do that. It's not like Popovich will be available in the offseason to replace JVG. Do you think that whoever we get to replace JVG will transform this team into the Spurs?
Okay so now it's about playing time and not about the rigid doghouse... When I look at the mintues per player this is what I see: Rafer and Shane - Shade Under 37mpg Mcgrady - Under 36mpg Yao - 34mpg Luther - 28 Juwan - 27 Chuck - 20 Dikembe - 19 They're the ones in regular rotation. THen you have Kirk, Jake, averaging well over 10 minutes for spot duty as well as bonzi whenever he's healthy/not eating cheeseburgers averaging 20 a game. Aside from Dikembe who HAD to start, how much less are you expecting them to play? Mcgrady is averaging the least amount of minute since his freaking toronto days and we're 5th in the West. And you should know by now how easy we can lose our lead when we play our bench. I'm no JVG apologist, because I know he has faults (mainly he has no offensive creativity), but Jesus Christ. First round exit and I think we should look for another coach. The thing is, of all the coaches avaliable, which one do you think will do a better job than JVG? Pop? Zen Master Phil? Sloan? D'Antoni? Don't kid yourself.
Riley isn't playing role players real high minutes. Nor is Phil J. Their stars play a lot, but neither team has Battier or Alston type players playing 37 MPG. Pop doesn't even have his stars (Duncan at 34.5, Parker at 33, Manu at 28) play that many. Deke is also playing his highest since 2003. Pop's highest role player MPG is Bowen at 31. For Miami it is Haslem at 32 (last year it was JW at the same). Phil J played Walton at 33 this year (Smust at 31) and Smush at 34 last year. This year LAL has 10 guys averging 15+ more MPG (14 over 10MPG). SA has 9 (12 over 10MPG). Mia has 11 (13 over 10MPG). The Rockets have 9 over 15MPG (11 over 10MPG). Further, many of these guys are young players and/or scrubs (Udriah, Vaugne, Bonner, Vujacic, Wright, Doleac, Quinn)--not the quality of player of Snyder for instance. Looking at the MPG to role players and/or minutes handed out to the far end of the bench if ya'll can't see JVG is pushing his role players harder (SB and Alston in particular with 37MPG) and is tighter in his rotations than these other elite coaches I don't know what to tell you. Further I understand SB and Alston are better at their positions than alternatives, but with either Snyder or Bonzi underutilized (both under their career averages) for most of the year (who can directly sub for Battier, or releave Alston's minutes by Head playing more PG and less SG) you had capable NBA players who could have relieved the burden. Replace Snyder/Wells for Battier is not the kind of drop off like subbing anyone for Tmac, Kobe, Wade, etc. Probably get a fresher, better Battier for a more reaosnable level of the minutes he does play (if even just down to 33 or so) and better integration of another NBA capable player (Wells, Snyder).
Rafer and Battier are playing just under 37 mpg. Is there a particular reason you think "role players" shouldn't be playing many minutes? I'm not disputing you, I'm just curious what your reasoning is there. The Boston Celtics of the 80s played Dennis Johnson -- who was sort of their Battier and Alston rolled into one -- a ton. Was that a mistake?
Is there some reason to think Battier cannot handle 37 mpg? Why can the 32 guys in the association that play more minutes handle it? Are all of their coaches (including Phil Jackson, Mike D'Antoni, and Pat Riley) worse/dumber than JVG? Wouldn't it be better to let your role players carry a heavier load so your stars can be saved for the playoffs?
Man, these JVG detractors are incredible. First they're all adamant about how JVG is a rigid disciplinarian whose stubborn personality cannot work in today's NBA (and conveniently ignore the fact that virtually every coach that has won championships over the past 5 years has been the same). Then seeing their argument utterly reduced to shreds by Kirk getting playing time last night, all of a sudden they switch gears at the drop of a hat and start whining about playing time. What in the...? Are you freaking kidding me? No, seriously. Some of you guys need some freaking therapy or something. It's like there's something eating at you on the inside, some sort of uncontrollable desire to somehow put down the coach. A deep-seated hatred. It's like he ate your puppy for breakfast 15 years ago and you can never find it in your heart to forgive him. He offends the very essence of your soul, and logic be damned, JVG is wrong and we will expose his faults, however phantom they might be. Get a shrink. Go sip some tea. Catch a nap. Do something. For the love of God, get over yourselves. Yikes.
If the Rox win the NBA championships with JVG as head coach i would consider letting him eat my dog. Seriously.
Rafer and Battier are at their career peak. On the good teams and those of the 3 best coaches role players don't play as much. You can bet on JVG, I bet on PJ, Riley and Pop. You would have to ask them, but my guess is they feel the optimal PT for most guys is somewhere between 18 and say 32. More than that and they get tired legs or have to conserve some energy/moderate their effort, less than that hard to get a flow (unless maybe a special vet like Deke, Kerr, Eddie Johnson, etc, always ready to do what they do). Durvasa, I am all for playing hall if fame guys such as DJ 40 minutes, once you are in the playoffs. Besides, neither those Boston teams nor the current Phx team play the defensive intensity ball of JVG, Riley, PJ, Pop, etc. Amazing that some think JVG can't do no wrong. Everything I have said I have done by best to back it up with data and compare what we are doing to the most successful coaches in the NBA. You may think our coach is perfect, I see some concerning aspects. I also have said I'll lay off if JVG proves to have manged his talent well and has playoff success. What will you say if he doesn't?
It depends on the disparity in level of play between the player and his replacement. If there's a huge disparity, then you play him longer. If not, you make the minutes more equitable. JVG would probably argue that Rafer and Battier play their position -- their "role" -- on our team far, far better than their replacements. Personally I think Luther Head is a terrible PG, and Lucas isn't much better. Spanoulis doesn't merit comment. Anyone who's observed our team can tell that our offense generally runs much more smoothly when Rafer is out there. As for Battier, there really isn't another player on the roster who gives us what he gives us. Snyder potentially can be that guy, but he isn't close to Battier's level. DJ was a role player in Boston. He wasn't a star. His Usg (a metric which measures per minute offensive activity) was about the same as Rafers, and if you adjust for the higher pace played in the 80s maybe slightly less. He played 37 MPG for some very good Celtics teams. And he worked as hard as anyone on the defensive end. You can't say he could play those extra minutes because he didn't have to play with defensive intensity when he was their primary defensive stopper.
DJ was a career 45% shooter, who was a defensive stopper, who always took the other team's best perimeter player, whom Larry Bird called the greatest teammate he ever had. Why on earth are we comparing Rafer to DJ???????? That vibration you feel in the ground is DJ turning over.
