Where would you rank Manu Ginobili in the list of all time SG's?

I'd guess Manu is around 20-25.

 

top 10 for sure

 

LOF's ruining another thread.

 

But would you take Manu over Parker or Duncan? That's one of the question marks. Both Parker and Duncan won Finals MVPs. Ginobody had a great playoff run in 2007, but that was in a great matchup vs high scoring, low defense teams like Denver and Nash/Phoenix. Ginobody got a huge (deservedly so) amount of press for that, but at Parker's expense. Parker out-performed him all the way to the finals...and won Finals MVP, and cemented (in my mind) that Tony Parker will go down as one of the most underrated players of all time (by the media players and fans).

Give me your honest answer: Would you take Manu over Parker

And do you agree with a 2007 poll at the SA Express newspaper site which asked the question..."Who is the most important person to the franchise"

and Duncan ranked 4th out of 15,000 votes.

Spoiler

the winners were

1. RC Buford
2. Popovich
3. Ginobody
4. Duncan
5. Parker

SA needs a football team, because they don't get it wrt basketball.

 

It's difficult because I'd take prime Manu over almost all of those players.

Duncan and Parker definitely helped but Manu carried that team in the early years more than people remember. http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html
Taking a look at his advanced stats, he has a better career WS than Kobe in both the regular season and playoffs. He also has THE highest post season WS/48 perfomance (0.260 with >5 games as a criteria) that I could find out of all the modern ERA guards listed in 2004-05 and has one of the best post-season PER performances (24.8) as well (Wade freaking dominates in post season btw). And yes, he was the benefactor of playing limited minutes and coming off the bench with Duncan and Parker as existing threats.

But ultimately, he's won at every level, including with his national team where he played starter minutes. In his prime, the guy just knew how to win... period. Top 4-8 candidate in my mind for sure.

 

Curious what the Spurs' cumulative record from 2002-2014 has been with Ginobili out of the lineup.

 

This is a stupid thread. Manu isn't top 20. Did you people forget Jerry West and all the other old guys?

 

I didn't know people were this high on Gino. He got to play alongside the greatest PF to ever play the game his whole career and under the tutorage of a top 5 coach of all time in Pop.

Numbers aren't everything but they do mean something when you want to be considered one of the all time great SG's and I'm sure Gino could've put up better numbers but in the end he didn't. Less than 15 ppg over his career and around 4 assists and 4 rebs? Pretty underwhelming if you ask me. Gino was a great fit but others could've done the same if not more given the same opportunity he had.

To those claiming Gino is better than Drexler, Ray Allen or even Reggie Miller is ****ing absurd.

 

JUST SAY NO!

 

Did you just say that Ginobody "carried that team." And Duncan and Parker merely helped?

 

1st in flopping

 

Manu over Parker for sure. And the 2007 pool is biased because Duncan seemed on the decline while Manu was playing amazing. And Manu was the one guy on the Spurs who played well against the Pistons. He was their go to guy. Most of their playoff runs, the 4th quarter offense ran through Manu.

So I have no idea what the point about the weak defenses is. In terms of impact while on the floor, Manu is easily one of the 10 greatest SGs of all time.

 

He did this as a bench player for a great defensive team, both of which inflate his WS.

 

Very wrong. Manu is outside my top 20. I can't vote.

 

A lot of young people in this thread. Lol @ Manu even being considered in the top 30

 

This doesn't quite answer the "all-time" question, but a few years back I posted this thread in the Dish:

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=231158

This is how I ranked SGs from 2002-2012, based on xRAPM and possessions played:

Code:

[B]    Name                  Off/100    Def/100    XRAPM       Poss      #seasons    PAPS[/B]
1   Kobe Bryant           +5.0       -0.4       +4.6        114928    11          451.8
2   Dwyane Wade           +5.5       +0.2       +5.7        86118     10          418.9
3   Manu Ginobili         +4.8       +0.8       +5.6        72437     11          314.6
4   Tracy McGrady         +4.4       -0.2       +4.2        74688     10          307.5
5   Vince Carter          +2.5       +0.2       +2.7        95750     11          290.9
6   Ray Allen             +3.5       -1.4       +2.1        99551     11          276.5
7   Eddie Jones           +0.8       +1.4       +2.2        45285     6           233.9
8   Joe Johnson           +1.9       -1.2       +0.7        110247    11          233.1
9   Jason Richardson      +1.9       -1.3       +0.6        99974     11          210.2
10  Reggie Miller         +1.9       -0.6       +1.3        23515     3           208.7
11  Brandon Roy           +3.1       -1.3       +1.8        42606     6           204.8
12  James Harden          +2.8       -0.6       +2.2        26081     4           202.1
13  Doug Christie         -0.1       +1.8       +1.7        28182     5           161.9
14  Michael Redd          +3.3       -2.9       +0.4        70240     10          156.2
15  Corey Maggette        +1.2       -0.7       +0.5        73811     11          150.6

 

only reason parker got 2007 finals mvp was beacuse of a good matchup. He was guarded by 95 year old eric snow and bobiee gibson. Manu was way better player than parker ever been. Especially on their primes.

 

Top5 for me. He should be the MVP the year they beat Pistons in the final. Clutch as hell all the way, and single handedly brokedown the Piston's defense.

Parker won the MVP in another final, but that's not a close series and he just had better stats while being younger.

Ginobilli is "THE DIFFERENCE" in tons of clutch moments for Spurs in their championship years.

 

Maybe you need to take a closer look at your advanced stats. For instance, according to WS, Ginobli is a significantly better defender than Bruce Bowen and Kobe. Do you believe that to be accurate?

 

Or any of the others he mentioned lol