Did you watch the second half of last season? No one compares to the dream, I would dare say, even with Shaqs prime, where he bulldozed his way through he was never as dominate as the dream on BOTH ends of the court. You have to give Yao a chance to fully develop. Its either this year or next. Then make comparisons. If you claim that Yao is overrated, then you apply the same argument to lebron. Lebron is a great stat player and so is Amare, but do they have the killer instinct to finish games? The jury is still out on that for the both of them.
hmmm this is quite hard, after all this thinking and weighing up, lebron, kobe, dirk, d-wade, melo, they all have great skills, but i think their lacking in whats most important, HUSTLE and DRIVE which is why for my #1 pick i would draft Ryan Bowen, his proven dedication, hustle and drive is undoubtely what will win games for a team and turn situations around. Though he is aging, I still believe he has at least another 10 years in him, heck if deke can do it, with a bit of HUSTLE and DETERMINATION Rybo will outlast any competition and still dominate the NBA. Rybo's passion for the game in unmatched by any and the thing is his already the greatest and yet he still has boundless potential. I think the numbers will speak for themselves. Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3p% HUSTLE AND DRIVE 05-06 HOU 68 19 9.6 .298 .136 110% so many seasons poor rybo has had MVP robbed from him but i think this year will be the year when justice will be served, and the NBA's true MVP will take his game yet to another unprecedent notch, blowing awaying all competition with his stunning determination and hustle.
i'm not making comparisons, the yao #1 proponents have been making the claims, that yao is the most dominating, or will become the most dominating player, i am drawing out those conlcusions by comparing them to recent dominating players.
Hahaha. I put Darko and Novak in there to see if you guys would catch it. I thought it was obvious when I put Hayes at 33. But that aside this is truly the order that I would draft the players, not necessarily my favorite players. Trust me, if it was about favorite players then Kobe wouldn't be at the top.
LBJ is great yes, but I just don't see him as anything more than a SF version of the big ticket. Just never gets the right components (i.e. a BIG MAN) to get the team far into the playoffs. In those terms Wade will always have his number. I'd take Wade over Lebron, but take T-mac/Kobe/Yao/Duncan over both of them. Guess people don't understand how important a skilled big man is in the NBA.
Call me crazy, but I still think Duncan goes #1. He is only going on his 10th season and it isn't like his game is based on pure athleticism or size (like Shaq), so he should stay effective for a while. He is clearly the easiest guy in the league to build a team around. I think Yao goes #2. That isn't saying Yao > Lebron, but Yao + other swingman > Lebron + other center. I also don't see any GM not taking Kobe as the first swingman. As much as I don't like him, he still plays better D than the others when he wants to, and there isn't anyone better in the clutch.
You guys way undersell Wade, Lebron and Dirk. I wonder which playoffs you were watching. Duncan is 30 and had his worst season (as did Shaq). If Duncan or Shaq were 22, yes, you build your team around them, but they are not. Dirk you could argue is right at his peak, and has the type of game that will last (less athletically dependent than Kobe, Tmac, KG, Duncan), but Wade showed himself as clearly more unstoppable than Dirk in the finals. Finally Wade at 24 has done something Kobe and Tmac never did, lead his team to a championship. Lebron is 22 and has also done something neither the other has done, lead his team to a playoff series victory. Ya'll are cracy if you think anyone would take a 28 year old Kobe over a 22 year old Lebron to build a real team around. This isn't like NBA Live where you can take Kobe's perhaps peerless individual skills and infuse him with leadership and a team first mentality, his team's meltdown with a 3-1 lead in the 1st round was very telling. You also have to completely ignore age, even if you argue Kobe is better (which I wouldn't, but I could by it), it isn't by much. I stand by Lebron and Wade at 1/2, and Yao/Dirk at 3/4. You factor both how good they are now (individual skills AND leadership) and shelf life. This is a credit to the center spot and Yao to be in this company, because he is the one with the statline and credentials unlike the others.
Wade and LeBron and Dirk are not as valuable to me as T-Mac (when healthy), Duncan, Yao, Kobe, and I would pick Amare if he's ok over them too. And I probably would take KG still for the next few years. I am not underselling Wade, LeBron, Dirk, I am simply being realistic based on the topic of the thread. If you really think Wade or LeBron or even Dirk goes ahead of guys like Yao, Duncan and Kobe, then........................
Some of you guys put yao way to high. I would not pick him over bron, dwade, kobe, duncan, or dirk. All those guys have taken their team to the playoffs and won a series. Without Kobe shaq would not have had a ring cause you know he isn't getting the ball at the end of games. Duncan still has a few years left. Dirk just took his team to the finals and he poses the biggest matchup problem in basketball. Dwade just won the finals. And Bron is just lebron, taking a crappy team to the second round.
Three questions: 1. How do you know he'll never get his team far? He's 22 years old. 2. How do you know Wade will always be ahead of him, is Shaq going to regain his youth somehow? 3. How could you use your first argument and then say that T-Mac should be ranked ahead of him? (7 games second round>first round)
I'm not really sure on how to quote someone, i'm an idiot that way, but i'm responding to, mostly what rockets dynasty is saying. In his earlier comment, he states that, "The top 4 players when healthy and removing age would definitely be T-Mac, Yao, Kobe, Duncan." and later, he says he is, "simply being realistic based on the topic of the thread?" it seems strange that, taking away potential career ending injuries and age is being realistic on the topic? where would yao get drafted today - I.e. you draft based on pros and cons - in other words, yes, age and health play a major role in those decisions. Likewise, if this hypothetical draft were based on everyone being 18 years old, maybe, that would allow for t-mac, yao, kobe, or duncan to be drafted first, however, that is not at all the case - we're trying to be realistic based on the topic thread, right Rockets Dynasty? and exactly how do you justify grouping wade lebron and dirk against guys like "Yao, Duncan and Kobe" I think duncan and kobe have accomplished a little more lengevity, domination - which you are so keen on revisiting - than yao has - yao is similar to wade and lebron ie you are drafting based on potential - yao has yet to prove he is elite - he has only foreshadowed his greatness in the second half of last season, and even then - i would not categorize him as duncan or kobe like. Which brings me back to my point, yao is probably top 6, but definitely not 1. That spot, in regards to reality, belongs soley to lebron james.
Bron is just lebron, taking a crappy team to the second round??? I do not know, Big Z is a decent C (TOP 8 in the NBA Center), drew gooden is an OK PF(much better than JHO), snow is an ok PG. I really do not know if they are a crappy team.
oh ,and thank you desert scar, I just don't understand how anyone could possibly justify taking yao #1 - maybe feasibly a financial situation, but even then, lebron doubled the worth of the cavs in one year.
Maybe Les Alexander can explain to you how he went from one of the poorest owners in NBA to one of the richest since Yao became a Rocket. The way these attendance numbers are listed doesn't allow viewers to see the whole story easily. Despite the lousy showings by the home crowd, the Rockets consistently ranked 5th or better when it comes to drawing largest audiences on the road. Even for the home games, the attendance improved steadily for three consecutives years from '02-'05 when Yao was basically injury free.
To arrive at the conclusions above, I took the NBA attendance stats listed on ESPN (part of which were listed by wozudichter earlier in this thread) for the past 4 seasons (those are the only ones that are available) and performed some spreadsheet routines. I think I might as well post my findings here. 2002-03 Season: Code: TEAM HR_Diff H_Rk R_Rk O_Rk H H% R R% O H%_Rk R%_Rk [color=red][b]HOU 22 27 5 24 13,784 84.6 17,919 93.2 15,851 21 5[/b][/color] ORL 19 26 7 21 14,778 85.7 17,305 89.2 16,041 19 8 NJ 13 23 10 19 15,184 75.7 16,956 87.7 16,070 26 10 SAC 8 12 4 11 17,317 100 17,924 93.5 17,620 2 4 LAL 7 9 2 3 18,972 98.4 19,107 100.1 19,040 3 1 MIN 6 18 12 18 15,699 82.6 16,657 87.2 16,178 22 11 ATL 6 28 22 28 12,894 66.3 16,294 84 14,594 28 26 BOS 5 13 8 12 17,293 92.9 17,263 89.3 17,278 11 7 DEN 5 25 20 27 14,824 77.6 16,299 85.4 15,562 25 20 IND 4 15 11 15 16,352 89.1 16,856 86.6 16,604 17 13 NOK 3 19 16 20 15,650 91 16,481 84.8 16,066 13 22 CLE 2 29 27 29 11,496 55.9 16,087 83.4 13,792 29 28 WAS 1 2 1 1 20,173 97.6 19,311 100 19,742 4 2 PHI 1 4 3 2 19,685 96.3 18,408 95 19,046 7 3 MEM 1 24 23 25 14,910 74 16,277 85.5 15,593 27 19 GSW 0 21 21 23 15,486 79 16,297 85.5 15,891 23 18 NY -1 8 9 6 19,011 96.2 17,104 88.6 18,058 9 9 MIL -1 17 18 17 16,243 86.8 16,327 84.1 16,285 18 25 DAL -3 3 6 4 19,912 103.7 17,618 92.3 18,765 1 6 SAS -3 11 14 13 17,950 97 16,559 86.6 17,255 6 14 PHO -3 16 19 16 16,257 85.5 16,318 85.5 16,288 20 17 TOR -5 10 15 10 18,963 95.8 16,509 85.5 17,736 10 16 UTA -6 7 13 9 19,171 96.3 16,585 87 17,878 8 12 SEA -6 20 26 22 15,541 91 16,243 84.6 15,892 14 24 MIA -7 22 29 26 15,322 78.2 15,844 82.1 15,583 24 29 LAC -10 14 24 14 17,231 90.8 16,276 85.2 16,753 15 21 POR -11 6 17 8 19,420 97.2 16,458 86.4 17,939 5 15 CHI -20 5 25 7 19,617 90.4 16,268 84.6 17,943 16 23 DET -27 1 28 5 20,470 92.7 16,053 83.6 18,261 12 27 2003-04 Season: Code: TEAM HR_Diff H_Rk R_Rk O_Rk H H% R R% O H%_Rk R%_Rk [color=red][b]HOU 18 22 4 15 15,565 85.1 17,768 91.9 16,680 19 4[/b][/color] NJ 16 26 10 21 14,952 74.6 17,379 89.1 16,150 27 11 ORL 13 27 14 27 14,359 83.3 16,791 85.5 15,590 21 19 NOK 10 28 18 28 14,332 83.3 16,669 84.8 15,486 22 21 MIN 8 11 3 9 17,635 95.5 17,825 92.4 17,729 7 3 SAC 8 13 5 11 17,317 100 17,762 91.6 17,537 2 5 IND 8 15 7 14 16,556 89.5 17,710 90.4 17,140 13 7 SEA 8 23 15 23 15,255 92 16,779 88.6 16,008 11 13 MEM 8 25 17 24 15,084 71.8 16,695 86.9 15,899 28 15 CLE 7 9 2 4 18,287 89.2 18,730 96.1 18,506 14 2 LAL 6 7 1 1 18,969 99.5 19,349 100.4 19,157 3 1 BOS 5 18 13 16 16,202 82.7 16,955 87 16,583 23 14 ATL 5 29 24 29 13,798 69 16,286 83.6 15,026 29 26 MIA 4 24 20 25 15,207 77.6 16,524 84.6 15,874 26 24 DEN 0 12 12 13 17,596 92.1 17,144 88.8 17,373 10 12 SAS -1 10 11 10 18,022 97.4 17,347 89.8 17,680 4 10 PHI -2 4 6 5 19,222 91.5 17,745 90.8 18,493 12 6 NY -2 6 8 6 19,082 96.6 17,589 90.1 18,317 5 9 PHO -6 17 23 18 16,350 86 16,375 85 16,363 18 20 DAL -7 2 9 3 20,136 104.9 17,434 90.3 18,802 1 8 LAC -7 19 26 20 16,150 86.9 16,258 86.1 16,205 16 17 WAS -7 21 28 26 15,703 78.5 16,008 81.9 15,857 25 29 GSW -9 20 29 22 16,145 84.1 15,885 82.3 16,013 20 28 POR -11 14 25 17 16,585 80.6 16,282 84.7 16,432 24 23 MIL -11 16 27 19 16,431 87.8 16,165 82.5 16,296 15 27 TOR -13 8 21 12 18,307 92.5 16,491 84.1 17,410 9 25 UTA -14 5 19 8 19,135 93.8 16,537 86 17,820 8 18 DET -15 1 16 2 21,290 96.4 16,717 86.1 19,003 6 16 CHI -19 3 22 7 19,736 86.3 16,445 84.8 18,131 17 22 2004-05 Season: Code: TEAM HR_Diff H_Rk R_Rk O_Rk H H% R R% O H%_Rk R%_Rk [color=red][b]HOU 19 23 4 15 16,181 88.4 18,183 94.4 17,182 17 3[/b][/color] ORL 16 27 11 26 14,583 84.6 17,510 88.2 16,047 23 15 MIN 9 15 6 13 17,181 93 17,874 92.7 17,527 11 5 BOS 8 24 16 23 16,001 81.6 17,216 86.9 16,609 26 19 LAL 5 7 2 3 18,792 98.6 18,810 97.5 18,801 7 1 PHI 5 10 5 8 17,870 85.1 17,933 91.8 17,902 22 6 SAC 5 13 8 14 17,317 100 17,702 91.6 17,509 4 7 ATL 5 28 23 28 14,456 72.3 16,730 84.9 15,593 29 29 CHA 5 29 24 29 14,431 61.9 16,717 85.8 15,574 30 26 SEA 4 21 17 20 16,475 96.9 17,029 87.9 16,752 8 17 MIL 4 25 21 25 15,536 83 16,806 85.1 16,171 24 27 NOK 4 30 26 30 14,221 82.7 16,690 86.4 15,456 25 22 MIA 3 4 1 2 19,881 101.4 18,891 95.9 19,386 2 2 CLE 3 6 3 5 19,128 93.3 18,275 92.9 18,701 9 4 PHO 2 11 9 11 17,708 93.1 17,570 91.5 17,639 10 8 DEN 0 12 12 12 17,657 92.5 17,506 91.1 17,582 12 10 IND -2 17 19 17 16,994 91.9 16,895 85.9 16,944 14 25 GSW -3 22 25 24 16,350 85.2 16,708 87 16,529 21 18 NJ -3 26 29 27 15,089 75.3 16,624 84.7 15,857 28 30 SAS -4 9 13 9 18,316 99 17,419 90.4 17,868 5 11 LAC -4 18 22 19 16,980 89.1 16,735 86.8 16,857 16 21 NY -5 5 10 7 19,515 98.7 17,540 88.9 18,528 6 13 DET -6 1 7 1 22,076 100 17,868 91.2 19,972 3 9 WAS -6 14 20 16 17,196 86 16,862 86.1 17,029 20 23 POR -8 20 28 22 16,594 80.6 16,658 86.9 16,626 27 20 UTA -10 8 18 10 18,756 91.9 16,923 88 17,839 13 16 TOR -11 16 27 18 17,155 86.6 16,677 85 16,916 19 28 MEM -11 19 30 21 16,862 91.6 16,621 86.1 16,742 15 24 CHI -12 2 14 4 20,204 88.3 17,334 88.5 18,769 18 14 DAL -12 3 15 6 20,061 104.5 17,259 89.9 18,660 1 12 2005-06 Season: Code: TEAM HR_Diff H_Rk R_Rk O_Rk H H% R R% O H%_Rk R%_Rk PHI 16 21 5 11 16,518 78.7 18,627 103.3 17,572 27 4 [i][color=red][b]HOU 14 28 14 26 15,514 84.8 17,537 98.6 16,513 25 9[/b][/color][/i] IND 13 24 11 20 16,179 87.5 17,624 96.6 16,902 19 14 BOS 11 18 7 14 16,890 86.2 17,919 96 17,404 20 17 NJ 11 19 8 16 16,866 84.1 17,710 97.2 17,288 26 10 POR 10 30 20 29 15,053 73.1 17,144 96.5 16,099 29 16 MIN 9 25 16 25 15,808 85.6 17,305 94.7 16,547 24 22 MEM 8 26 18 27 15,793 85.8 17,211 96.6 16,502 22 15 LAL 5 7 2 6 18,882 99.1 18,812 102.7 18,847 7 5 DEN 5 15 10 15 17,135 89.7 17,642 96.6 17,388 17 13 SEA 4 23 19 24 16,198 95.3 17,195 96 16,697 9 18 MIA 3 4 1 2 19,954 101.8 18,988 104.6 19,471 3 1 PHO 3 12 9 9 17,809 93.6 17,694 99.1 17,751 12 7 ORL 3 27 24 28 15,561 90.2 17,084 93.8 16,322 15 23 CLE 2 5 3 4 19,326 94.3 18,798 103.8 19,062 11 2 SAS 2 8 6 7 18,797 101.6 18,331 102.5 18,567 4 6 ATL 1 29 28 30 15,068 75.3 16,723 92.6 15,896 28 25 CHA 0 22 22 23 16,366 0 17,117 89.7 16,741 30 29 WAS -1 16 17 18 17,122 85.6 17,291 95.3 17,208 23 21 MIL -1 20 21 21 16,617 88.8 17,119 91.7 16,868 18 27 DET -3 1 4 1 22,076 100 18,637 103.4 20,335 5 3 NY -7 6 13 8 18,931 95.8 17,563 97.2 18,247 8 11 DAL -9 3 12 5 20,121 104.8 17,591 98.7 18,856 2 8 SAC -9 14 23 17 17,317 100 17,101 95.7 17,209 6 20 CHI -13 2 15 3 21,188 92.6 17,404 96.7 19,296 13 12 LAC -13 13 26 19 17,375 91.2 16,944 93 17,160 14 24 TOR -13 17 30 22 17,054 86.1 16,595 91.6 16,825 21 28 UTA -16 9 25 10 18,332 89.9 17,048 95.9 17,690 16 19 GSW -17 10 27 12 18,273 95.2 16,775 91.8 17,514 10 26 NOK -18 11 29 13 18,168 1443.6 16,659 88.8 17,414 1 30 H = home game attendance number H% = percentage of home game crowd capacity R = road game attendance number R% = percentage of road game crowd capacity O = overall attendace number for both home and road H_Rk = rankings of H H%_Rk = rankings of H% R_Rk = rankings of R R%_Rk = rankings of R% O_Rk = rankings of O HR_Diff = difference between H_Rk and R_Rk Teams are purposedly ordered by the HR_Diff. Prior to this whole exercise I knew that the Rockets generally are an excellent road team, at least for the last couple of seasons, but I had no idea there is such a huge gap between home and road crowd numbers for the Rockets. Even in the injury-plagued '05-'06 season in which Yao and TMac missed lots of games, the Rockets still managed to draw a respectable 14th place in the road game crowd ranking. There may be lots of good things about Houston (like the weather ), but the city doesn't seem to be a very friendly host for the Rockets. In light of the facts, you've got to appreciate Clutch's website, Jeff's save the Rockets petition, and all the effort by the Red Rowdie fans, such as my D&D buddies andymoon and krosfyah, to spur the passion among the Houstonians for their NBA home team.
I support you man! Where the f__k is KG21?? Hey, Minnisotta might be a crap team only because they have a crap managment. If you guys are ranking Lebron/Wade and even CP3 so high, hey at least KG+Vince could win an Olympics! KG's career is just bad luck, I can't believe their management fired Coach Sanders... And where's love for VINCE CARTER man?? This guys energy level's = to Kobe's. My list: 1. Kobe (who could score 81pts and 62 in 3quarters?) 2. Yao (Who can win a game against Houston without Double/Triple team this guy??) 3. Duncan (Mr fundamental) 4. Lebron (At age 21, triple-double every week) 5. Ben Wallace (just put him in a team with any of the G/F mentioned here with Phil Jackson) 6. Tmac (who else can shoot 4 straight 3s in 35seconds against Spurs??) 7. KG 8. Melo (Didn't he make the 1st round playoffs every year since his Rookie Season?) 8. Wade (simply because he can't shoot 3s) 9. Dirk (you've got a good coach man) 100. Iverson (when you shoot first everytime, your team mates gets bored and loss concentration)
i believe that six hundred million dollars came from oil and being on the right side of natural gas during the bubble. The rockets are lucrative, but not high nines net. Les makes a lot of money in a lot of different ways other than yao and yes, they are more lucrative
