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Where to put Von Wafer, when everyone is back.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DaDakota, Jan 14, 2009.

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Where does Von fit in on a healthy Rocket's team?

  1. Starter - he has earned it

    201 vote(s)
    28.9%
  2. Bench - SG off bench

    484 vote(s)
    69.5%
  3. Out of rotation - stash him for next year, or emergencies

    11 vote(s)
    1.6%
  1. shortfuse3

    shortfuse3 Member

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    actually, do we even want t-mac now?

    i suspect the rockets are HEAVILY shopping T-Mac now with the emergence of Von Wafer.
     
  2. BMoney

    BMoney Member

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    Why do you follow the Rockets? All you do is complain and whine about them, even when they are winning!
     
  3. IamKhan

    IamKhan Rookie

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    If Battier goes to the bench, it will screw up the whole rotation:

    Artest will be the sixth man, Brooks needs Barry to direct the offense, where's battier's PT?

     
  4. bullardfan

    bullardfan なんでやねん

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    let wafer start and bring tmac off the bench.

    that way we have wafer getting it going early and tmac finishing. tmac
    wont have very much stamina so it would be beneficial for him and wafer would have the psychological advantage of starting which might help him continue his excellent play. also, wafer seems to fade around 3rd quarter
    so a fresh tmac may be just the charge needed.

    remember when SA moved Ginobli to 2nd team?

    maybe something like this. doesnt mean that the starter will get most playing time. just based on who is performing better.

    Alston
    Wafer
    Artest
    Scolandry
    Yao

    reserves

    AB
    Tmac/Barry
    Battier
    Scolandry
    Deke
     
  5. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    Tmac is loafing and not playing D. Put Von in immediately to let Tmac know that the Rockets are ready to move fwd w/or w/o this him. I like Von at the 2 along with Artest at the 3. Because the Red Jacket man Shane isn't giving us anything on the offensive end. He looks slower than Tmac, but his attitude is right.
     
  6. IndoRockets

    IndoRockets Member

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    Wafer is doing great, absolutely great considering his squad status before the season. I remember many people were slating the decision on choosing Wafer rather than the defensive DJ Strawberry. My props is all for him. Being dumped from team to team, he worked his ass off from being an unknown quantity, slowly got inside the rotation, then to a legit role player, and now questionable on being a starter or not in a team as talented as Houston Rockets.

    But the fact is..as good as wafer is, Tmac got a huuge contract to live on and be responsible with it so Tmac will definitely gets more playing time than Wafer. Wafer can be our JR Smith off the bench along with artest.

    Adelman has some serious issue regarding managing the minutes if everyone is healthy, because everyone is playing good and winning without 2 of our stars. This won't happen in any year before.
     
  7. VooDooPope

    VooDooPope Love > Hate

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    I would keep starting wafer and bring tmac off the bench. The team seems to play well when he starts the game and attacks the defense aggresivly.
     
  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Integrating both Ron and Tmac back in the rotation at once could have chaotic results....

    DD
     
  9. leroy

    leroy Member
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    Wafer coming off the bench is the best case scenario. He provides 2nd team scoring and will stay fresh. His production seems to drop off significantly in the 2nd half of games he starts. His MO seems to be that he begins by scoring 15 in the first half and finishes with 17.
     
  10. Happy Mac

    Happy Mac Member

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    exactly. and while i love what he's given us so far, it's probably too soon to annoint him our second scorer behind yao. let's see how long he can keep this up.
     
  11. leroy

    leroy Member
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    Also, as well as he's been playing, it allows the team to not rush McGrady and Artest. We're playing well of late. IMO, we only get better with a healthy McGrady and Artest. Every great team needs scoring off the bench and that's exactly what Wafer provides. A fresh Wafer can be that 3 point killer in the 4th quarter...a guy that can come in and put teams away in a 3 minute stretch.
     
  12. J-Wolf

    J-Wolf Member

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    I start to see Von as a starter, especially the first a few games when TMac is back.

    I just love how the team plays now. Extra passes, inside out, 3-pointers, fast breaks, completely the way basketball should be played. It's a perfect system. Now when you compare TM and VW:

    1. fast breaks. I just love to see VW brings fast breaks back to Rox. He is lightening fast with good ball handling skills and a good elevation. I doubt TMac can do the same in the first a few games when he is back.

    2. 3-pointers. This is the most important part. As a wing player, you need to knock down 3-pointers when you are wide open. somehow I trust VW more in this situation

    3. attacking the basket. A healthy TMAC is waaaay better than VW in this category. But will TM ever be completely healthy?

    4. passing. TMAC is any time is a waaay better passer. But with Adelman's system now, this advantage is not as significant.
     
  13. TheDreamShake

    TheDreamShake Member

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    - Dime magazine
     
  14. trueroxfan

    trueroxfan Member

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    can he play any 3 minutes? i'm too lazy to look up his height and weight, but i can speculate that he prolly could play some minutes at that position, i don't see why he shouldn't be able to play minutes at the 2 and 3, behind battier and tmac, obviously his minutes will be severely slashed adding 2 of our major players back into the rotation, but hopefully not too much, he could offer legitimate scoring and a relief for tmac (tmac could be rested more in games and have a good shooter to pass to, also limiting the double teams that are sure to come if tmac is truly back)
     
  15. trueroxfan

    trueroxfan Member

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    you're an idiot, they are not shopping tmac, because in a 7 game series, we can not beat the lakers and the other top teams in the league. we have to have tmac at a high level to compete in those series, 7 game series are different from regular season games
     
  16. towW

    towW Member

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    Good question.

    This is what my Starting Line-Up would look like.
    Rafer - PG
    Wafer - SG
    TMac - SF
    Scola - PF
    Yao - C
    If Mac can handle guarding someone for the first quarter you can bring Battier and Artest off the bench for a complete shutdown on D.

    Monster Bench:
    Brooks
    Battier
    Artest
    Landry
    Deke

    Situational:
    Barry
    Hayes

    Street Clothes:
    Luther
    Dorsey

    But I think things will go back to the OG starting line up.
    Rafer
    Mac
    Battier
    Scola
    Yao
    With Wafer taking Luther's spot on the bench.
     
  17. joesr

    joesr Member

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    You know while in a half sense you are correct in another half sense you are wrong. It all matters whats at the end of the table. You are acting as if Tmac wont get return value. Well if that was true how is it that he would perform good? If he comes back strong he will get his value back up. If he gets his value back up he can get a return in a trade. So are you starting to see the butterfly effect that you so HEAVILY missed that you had to call out someone an idiot where in fact it would be you for typing before thinking?

    The glass is half empty or half full over here brada....just matters how you perceive it.
     
  18. Ketchup&Mustard

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    Very good point, and I think Battier and Artest could be interchangeable options at the 3 depending on the situation.

     
  19. BONIERO1576

    BONIERO1576 Member

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    Honestly I wold like to see McGrady coming off the bench unless he really turns it around in the next 10 games.

    Rafer-Brooks/Tmac
    Artest-Wafer/Barry/Tmac
    Battier-Tmac
    Scola-Landry/Hayes/Dorsey
    Yao-Hayes/Deke

    At least, to me, that seems like the best way to get our best players on the floor while limiting T-Mac's minutes. It also protectes him defensively, he'll be match up agaist the back up wing and have either Bat or Ron to guard the better scorer. towards the end of the regualr season I would also like to see an effort to limit Yao's minutes.
     
  20. JeopardE

    JeopardE Member

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    I have sort of refrained from saying this but ...

    I love Von Wafer as much as any of you guys. I love his fire, I love how he has improved himself, I love his production on the court.

    But the numbers tell me that the Von Wafer show is over once McGrady and Artest are back. And the #1 reason is defense. As much as Von Wafer excites everyone with his good shooting and ability to attack the basket, he is still a below-average defender. We've seen flashes, but there is nothing close to consistency there yet. Battier getting minutes over him is not even a question: for all of Battier's defensive reputation, his greatest impact to this team is on offense (112.5 offensive rating when he is on with +8.33 diff, both numbers highest on the team). Don't let the shooting slump fool you. Von Wafer has been really great on offense too (111.8/+6.68), but his defensive numbers are abysmal (110.1/+7.80, lower is better). For some perspective, the much maligned McGrady has an on-court defensive rating of 100.6/-6.88 -- for all the talk about effort, he has actually been pretty decent on defense and better than any of the past 3 seasons. Wafer has also been somewhat one-dimensional in that he has been basically a finisher on offense and thus doesn't contribute much in other categories (assists, rebounding, creating scoring opportunities for teammates). This makes it easy for good teams to take him out of the game at crucial points, like the Lakers did in their last game in Houston.

    Wafer's potential is really high and I personally hope he remains a Rocket for a long time. In the areas where he is deficient, we have seen flashes and it's clear he has the ability to get dramatically better in those areas (defending, passing, rebounding). But for right now, I think his role eventually diminishes to that of a situational player eventually. The only player I would think he really had a decent chance of competing for playing time with is Barry, but now that Barry is healthy and shooting well, even Barry brings much more to the table than he does. I think that's a realistic assessment, even though it's not what fans who have fallen in love with him will want to hear.
     

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