I hope this is not a situation like in Chicago where the overwhelming majority of the fans there just soaked up every move that Jerry Krause made. He was labeled the "Sleuth" because of his reputation as a very thorough and smart magician who always had some brilliant player moves up his sleeves. This was the Bulls fans' situation with their GM for years. The Bulls fans kept waiting for the Sleuth to bring the next coming of the Bulls dynasty and we all know the rest of the story. The lesson here is that it is OK to trust Morey but he still has a lot to prove. A second round appearance with the players the Rockets had last year may be fools gold, which I hope it was not. A healthy dose of skepticism regarding Morey, I think, is healthy both literally and figuratively. Morey might be "8 moves ahead of us" because we are not privy to the real goings on in the Rockets brain thrust. Otherwise, let us not deify Morey as a basketball god, yet. That day may or may not come. Let us wait and see, with some reservations, at this point in the offseason. Having said all of that, I wish Morey success.
First, cherry picking facts to suit your argument (Morey gets no credit for drafting Brooks, or Landry, but is blamed for the Battier-Gay trade in your world...wow...) does not help your argument. Nobody's is saying that Morey is perfect, but the knee-jerk attention whoring threads *one* f-ing day after the NBA draft make you look foolish. It boggles the mind that you could pick *this* day to b**** about the GM given his drafting track record and the fact that the team had *no draft picks* going in! I mean, wow! Secondly, I can't think for you, but if you are going to compare Portland and Houston's situation, recall that Morey had two relatively young max contract guys who most NBA observers thought were top 10-15 players. Portland had the luxury of completely retooling. They damn well *should* have got at least two stars considering he had the number one, number two and number 7 picks. You act like Pritchard's such a wizard when many of the moves that you are blowing him for were actually done by Steve Patterson. The pick that was all Pritchard was Greg Oden. Tell me again what a genius he is? One more thing: the Rockets kicked the Trailblazers ass this year. In the playoffs. Third- You still have no concept of a salary cap. Your trade proposals almost never work. You also need to factor in the cap when thinking about why Morey is making the decisions he is making. The reason the Spurs were able to pick up Jefferson is because they looked after their cap. The reason the Rockets moved Battier for Gay was in part to get rid of Stromile Swift's contract. The Rockets gave themselves cap flexibility in that move so they could add Jackie Butler's salary and pick up Luis Scola. Last, the whole "look at Morey getting athletic wing players now" is predicated on the fact that he once had a top five player in the league playing wing who just had microfracture surgery! When Gay was drafted McGrady was not only one of the best wing players on earth, but he was also on a team that did not have jack squat at any other position than center! Compare the Rockets roster now versus what they had when Morey came to the team. I swear, b****ing about Morey's roster management is so stupid it's almost perverse.
How can you sit here and give Pritchard all this credit when the best thing he has done for the Blazers came as a result of him stealing Morey's deal for Roy. The Blazers just happened to have be one pick ahead of us and got our guy before we could. There is almost nothing Morey can do about that. As for the Rudy Gay part, that guy was suppose to be the number one pick that yr until a bad tournament showing that resulted in most of the NBA gms being down on him. Last time we took a guy that fell from possible number one was when we took Eddie Griffin, god rest his soul, and we all know how bad that turned out. Sometimes things just don't work out, but the main thing to remember is that Morey's guy was Roy and that shows good instincts. Also Morey wanted to make that trade because he loves Rubio and not bc he was dying to get Rudy Gay back. I think Gay is a good player that will never be great. Most of the criticisms about his work ethic and attitude that made him fall or still being floated around and if I remember right I think Memphis was trying to trade him at some point last yr bc of it. I'm also not sure where all this love for Vince is coming from. I like the guy but to me he is just another Tracy McGrady waiting to happen with a longer contract. I do like RJ a lil bit more but 29 MM over the next two yrs is a lot of money for that guy. I'm as impatient as any fan and I hate to see that we haven't made a move yet but I'm not to the point where I think its time to point the finger at Morey for not doing his job bc he has been pretty good at it since hes got here. He didn't let us down last yr when he got Artest and he didn't let us all the way down before the deadline when he got lowry and moved skip which turned out to be pretty good for the team. And when it comes down to choosing between the 20 yr experience guy and the 4 yr number crunching guy, I pick the guy that gets results. Some people just know talent when they see it and 20 yrs of watching doesn't mean that you are going to be better than the new guy. 30 yr old Theo Epstein is the guy that ended the BoSox curse and he didn't need 20 yrs of scouting to figure out what good talent is.
How dare you compare Rudy Gay to Jeff Bagwell. Bagwell was rookie of the yr, something that Rudy Gay wasn't, and he won a MVP which is something Rudy Gay will also never win and I might go as far as saying that he will never finish in the top 20. The guy hasn't even made an all star team and you are comparing him to a possible future hall of famer. That trade is nowhere near as bad as the Bagwell trade and doesn't even get close to it until Gay makes at least 3 all star games.
Are you kidding me? Pritchard and Morey's situations have not been the same. In the O6 draft, Houston had the #8 pick. Portland had two picks before them. Of course Pritchard should have had a better draft that year. Not to mention the other players you mentioned (Fernandez, Kapponen and Oden) were a result of buying first round draft picks and winning the lotto. Its not like he made some aggressive trade. His billionaire owner gave him money and he bought picks. You criticize Morey for drafting a player who is staying overseas, but Pritchard did the same thing with Claver this year. And you are not bashing Pritchard for passing on Durant and instead ending up with Oden, who in the few games he hasnt been injured has still looked mediocre at best. As for the Morey admitting a mistake comment, that makes no sense. Admitting a mistake is offering Battier for Gay straight up. He clearly was after the number 2 pick and that had more to do with the trade then landing Gay. Its like when we brought Mike James back. I dont think that was admitting a mistake, especially when we sent him out again a few weeks later.
Just my guess but I think Memphis probably asked for Battier to be part of the deal for the #2 and Morey countered by asking for Gay in return, which Mephis then refused. I don't see Morey suggesting the Gay-for-Battier swap unless Memphis wanted Shane first. Anyway, I'm going to hold off on judging Morey just yet. From reading the various rumors, I'm getting the feeling that it's not easy to get good and equal value for McGrady right now. If that's the case, I'd rather have Morey show patience rather than just take the best deal available. The best move might be to wait and hold onto McGrady until near the trade deadline.
Leeb, I hear what you are saying and you make some valid points, however, Morey has been hamstrung for a time by not being able to trade Tmac or Yao..... And that is as much of a problem as him not being a scout. I think he is smart enough to rely on others opinions.....Landry and Brooks are an example of that... I think we need patience. DD
Well I did say 'slightly less lopsided' and 'will go down,' implying it was a prediction of what will happen in the future. Bagwell's my fav Astro ever by far (miles better than Biggio IMHO but that's another discusssion), so I mean no disrespect to him. Gay clearly is no Bagwell yet. I just think the two trades have a lot in common. For instance, Battier's role and value are kind of similar to a middle reliever like Andersen, and the trade actually did help the Red Sox in the short-term. It should also be noted that Rudy Gay was MUCH less of an unknown than Bagwell was.
Disclaimer 1 I'm not defending the original Gay for Battier trade. Disclaimer 2 I'm not saying Battier is more valuable than Gay. That said how does Morey trying to trade Battier and Landry for the #2 + Gay make the original Gay for Battier trade a mistake? Unless Wallace values Carl Landry more than the #2, to make up the difference in value doesn't that make Battier MORE valuable than Gay? If it went through, the net outcome of the two trades would be Houston getting the #2, and Memphis getting Landry and Swift's contract. Now, the trade didn't actually go through, so we can't say for sure how much Wallace values Battier or Gay atm. I'm just saying the fact that Morey offered Battier + Landry for Gay + #2 doesn't help your argument. From article posted in NBA forum: Link: http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/jun/27/griz-clippers-swap-fails/
DD, contrary to opinions, I don't hate anyone and i'm a very patient man. A man of god has to be patient and understanding and have his heart filled with love and not hate. Not you, but posters on this board can call me any name in the book and if they needed me for charity or was in financial help, I would do what I could. I go and feed and clothe people downtown who I have no relationship with, but that's who I am. DD, u see it and I am sure the events are just as irritating to you as they are me. I know you would rather not have amare but if your sources are as good as mine and I trust they are, that deal shouldve been made. Even if the amare deal wasn't made, jefferson and carter going for scraps is the push overboard. Jefferson esepcially cause he went to the team that has dominated our division and kicked our ass since 97 and now they get what they need for nothing. I defend u when u call for maggette and people don't understand why u and I think the guy fits what adelman wants to do. Well , jefferson did also and he's a better defender than corey at the same time. Really, I've backed of the morey bashing a lot because I realize he's still learning the nba. I mean he spent a few yrs with ainge and this is basically his 4th year hear, so in essence, he's a young guy in terms of just dealing with nba in general. I just know from experience that guys who are extreme analytical types, they move slower than most. The mindset is to exhaust every resource then look at it again and again. Its like paralysis by analysis. I think he's going to evolve into a good gm, but gm's are judged on titles and talent. Buford pulled 2 all stars out his ass that were late picks. Dumars traded stack and hill in their prime and signed billups to mle along with getting prince late. The utah gm has turned over from stockton and malone into a very good young,athletic team that will be here for awhile. All gm's make mistakes, no doubt, but the really good ones make up for it and their drought is short. I'm giving morey time,I just think its over for this team to win a title unless its a major,major 1a type player is added.
As I said before, I don't hate anyone in the world and my source isn't the scout that left either. You talk about not having bad contracts, what bad contract did we have when he took over? Swift had a mle contract that expired this year. Who else you consider bad? Just a note, those same bad contracts netted the lakers Gasol. Those same bad contracts netted the rockets mcgrady instead of francis and company. Those contracts can and usually do net a very good player especially when they're expiring. Penny Hardaway contract was had for Francis contract which in term netted Lewis. Contracts and the 25% rule over the cap allows teams to move those bad contracts.
I understand your point, but there are only so many good fits available. Vince was one of them and Jefferson was another. In other words, time might not be running out, but the best choices will be long gone before the deadline is even on the horizon.
Maybe that's what I shouldve said Raven. Its kindler and gentler way of putting it. Just imagine if they could've gotten jefferson for Cook,barry,hayes,and Shane. They could have improved their perimeter gaame and still had tracy's contract.
Battier's contract does not expire this year though. This was purely a financial decision on the Bucks part. Bowen and Oberto had salaries of 4 million and 3.5 million respectively. However only 3.9 of that 7.5 million was guaranteed so the Bucks will immediately save 3.6 million next year cuz neither Oberto or Bowen will be on the Bucks next year. Kurt Thomas is due 3.8 million so overall, the Bucks saved big dollars considering RJ was due 14.2 million next year. Your package of Cook, Barry, Hayes and Shane totals about 14 million bucks. Therefore the Bucks would have saved almost nothing next year. More importantly for 2009 they shaved off 15 million which was due to RJ. Shane would still be on the books in 09 for 7.3 million. So again, economically your trade doesnt help the Bucks nearly as much as the one they did.
Morey picked up 3 prospects on draft night when we didnt have any picks, not bad. But I don't blame ya for feeling let down. The media (especially the internet) does give silly, hyper-attention to rumors about potential (unlikely) trades. At the same time, I do admit my guilty pleasure devouring all the rumors involving my beloved Rockets .
I know what you're saying, but teams like the bucks never get free agents. All the players they get are either drafted by them or traded to them. Battier is a role player, but he is a guy skiles and davidson might like because he is a defender. U could take barry out and add lowry, another guy skiles might like and maybe they don't draft jennings to maybe replace sessions. I can't lie and say they didn't make a offer, but maybe a package of cook,battier, and lowry made a lot of sense especially since redd is purrely a shooter/scorer and charlie v is the same.
I dont even think its about landing a free agent in 2010. I think they know they are not going to get Lebron, Wade, Bosh etc... to come to Milwaukee. They probably just dont believe a player like RJ is worth 15 million a year. This way they basically wipe their slate clean of him with no long term committment to anyone else.
Leeb, I expect better of you. Pritchard had five picks in the draft and got just about nothing for them. He also picked Oden over Durant, which could still be somewhere close to the Bowie/Jordan fiasco. Not to mention, the complete cluster **** with Darius Miles. The guy is flat out overated.
The Magic is available in free agency. Two of them, in fact. Given the Carter trade, and Magic's interst in Sheed Wallace. There is a realistic chance these two can both bolt.
