He's near .50 FG%. Not inefficient in my world, actually very efficient. I would trade Ariza for him tomorrow. Rudy Gay is right now a very solid all around SF. Ariza's D is a little bit overrated here, he's our best wing defender but nor for that reason he becomes an excellent defender in absolute terms. Take a look at the advanced stats, or simply at the games, and you will realize he's not that effective and commits many mistakes. Still our best SF defender, but I'm Ok with Gay's defense nowadays and he gives you much more offensive possibilities.
I would take him ALL DAY, even over Ariza. I know what the other people are saying, but they don't understand how to make our best player and SUPERSTAR even better. And that is to surround him with people that make it hard to defend Harden. Ariza is barely a threat offensively because he is not consistent, and if his 3 ball is off, he is a dud on offense. Ariza also consistently gets beat on defense now, even by the like of Korver. He can't chase people on screens anymore and is losing his lateral quickness. Rudy Gay is a scorer who shoots a decent enough 3 ball, but ALSO can put the ball on the floor and dribble without you cringing every time like when Ariza or Brewer does. Gay can beat his man and score whenever you need him to. If the ball ends up in his hands with the shot clock running down, he can at least get off a decent shot and not end up throwing up a prayer like Ariza normally will do after the shot clock has already gone off. Sure, I would love if we could keep Ariza to come OFF THE BENCH to back up Gay, but I would trade him in a heartbeat in a package to get Gay with Harden. Harden is our SUPERSTAR and Gay would only be a complimentary player, not another superstar. But his abilities would make Harden even better at what he does, and Harden would make him better as well. I would prefer to give up Brewer, some overseas prospects and seconds for Gay, but if the Kings really wanted Ariza or even Bev, or even both for him, I would do it also if they took Brewer off our hands as well and included another player. Call me crazy all you want. But I want all OFFENSE in our starting lineup and for our team to learn to play team defense. We don't need great one on one defenders, we just need team players that will communicate and help each other. Bev or Ariza are NOT shutting down anyone anymore and I've seen enough to know this. If we got Gay and then a Center that could shot the 3 as well, like a COUSINS, we would be unstoppable and average like 130 a game this season. Few teams could match up with that and we would be a contender with a decent bench.
I like his athleticism but the guy can't shoot! If he plays a role similar to igudala and swallow his pride and come of the bench I'd say he'll yeah!
how come he cant shoot when he is averaging 22 ppg on 50% efficiency on 2's and 42% efficiency on 3's this year?
I think Beverly IF he can stay healthy will have one of his best seasons playing with the 2nd unit running the show...his expectations will not be the same as previous years...but as a backup PG I think he'll fit. Obviously if we can get a STEAL having him as part of the trade bait before the trade deadline is always something to look at especially if we can move Brewer also....however, I'm thinking Beverly's stock gonna rise this year...**** with Ennis is driving me bat **** crazy....I'm shocked the Rockets have the winning record as it is...especially if they beat San Antonio AGAIN!
Corey Brewer still takes 3's in the offense that gives him those looks. This team struggles mightily on offense with Harden out of the game. Gay is not perfect, but in the right role could help this team. I would not trade Ariza for Gay. Brewer.....
damn dude we talking **** about gay like every one else that are not rockets talk **** about harden rudy gay is probably better that most of the things we have outside of the starting lineup
And much better than Ariza too!!! Don't get me wrong, I like Ariza, but Gay is a much better SF than Ariza.
if there was a deal for brewer amd ariza for gay I'd do it and that opens up 16 million more in cap space for the summer
He has never been capable of being a complimentary player with even a part time star, or a good team offensive player, or an elite iso scorer, or a good team defender. I think Ariza went from being overhyped as a defender to being underrated as a defender. He is not as good as he used to be, but it is silly to ignore that when compared to 400+ NBA players, he is a very good defender, and still the BEST one on our team. What kind of logic is it for a team that's doing great on offense and horrible on defense, to trade its best defender for a guy who has not proven in 10 years that he can play within a team concept and is a horrible defender? HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?? We don't need more offense. Yes, the offense dies a bit when Harden is out, but that will improve once Bev replaces Brew, which gives Gordon more time with the 2nd unit. If we sign DMo our bench becomes decent. I know it goes against everything sports center might teach, but iso ball is not good. It should be a last resort, not a thing you try to build on. What we need is for the bench to pass the ball more when Harden is off the floor, learn to play efficiently and execute very well. Harden is an exception to this rule, he is a statistical god on isolation plays. Great teams achieve offensive efficiency by learning how to move and how to pass. That's what we need to do. No more of these narrow minded players. But please get the point that we are an amazing offensive team. The offense is not yet fully installed, the players are not yet running it instinctively, we are having to run Brewer and Ennis out there right now. We don't have an offense problem. We need athletic defenders and fundamentally sound rebounders. That will help our defense, and it will improve our transition offense. I'll tell you this though, I'm getting close to considering a Ryan Anderson for Gay + Cauley-Stein deal and starting Gay at the 4. Nothing to do with Gay, but more as an Anderson salary dump. Anderson is not a better defender or rebounder than Gay, and I'm fairly certain Gay's overall offensive game would demand much of the same spacing Anderson demands. Can Gay run a great pick and roll with Harden? I'm not sure. I can't imagine our defense would get worse, but our offense would be largely intact I think. Cauley-Stein is someone who might develop well, that's the other reason I would consider the deal, I think WCS is a nice asset for a team like us starving for young talent with good potential to improve. The Kings apparently wanted Anderson this summer anyway, and Gay has a shorter contract, and might hopefully opt out in the summer. My concern of course would be I do not believe Gay is the kind of guy who would accept being a role player like Anderson accepts and executes well. I'm starting to get worried about what kind of player Anderson will be in 2 years when he's even slower than this. Right now he's serving his purpose well, but long term that contract doesn't look good to me.
We don't need more offense and less defense. When Harden is on the floor we have the best offensive rating in the league. Gay isn't the kind of guy that can run the offense when Harden sits, either. Sacramento has problems putting points on the board even with his production. And he'll want to get paid this summer.
I totally disagree with you on just about everything, so let me take it point by point: Any evidence for this? What stats do you have to back any of this up? What SUPERSTAR has he played with on Harden's level? What system has he played in that was superior offensively but he was bad at? And the same for defense? If I remember correctly, he was a starter on the Memphis team when they were still considered one of the best defensive teams in the league. And no one is claiming that we want or need him to be an "elite" iso scorer on this Rocket's team. Ariza was NEVER an elite defender to me. Correct me if I'm wrong, but how many 1st All Defensive Honors does he have? So he was as you said, always overhyped as a defender for us because we were bad defensively, but he is not underrated now. He is not good. He consistently gets beat off the dribble by his man. He best attribute now is his IQ. He knows how to read passing lanes and anticipate, so he gets a fair amount of steal from that. He is not a great help defender or one on one defender anymore. He won't shut down anyone, not even Kyle Korver. Being the best among bad doesn't make you good or above average. We are not doing great on offense if you consider the second half. We are below average second half, but because he have such great 1st halfs, we are ranked high overall. Our defense is improving, NOT because of Ariza, but because the team is communicating more and helping each other as a team. Ariza is still getting beat individually by his man consistently....just watch the games. And again, Rudy proved he can play in a team defensive concept in Memphis. I haven't looked up the numbers, but correct me if I'm wrong. What makes you say he is a HORRIBLE defender? Any stats? How many of his games have you watched? I watched him a lot in person in Memphis. I think he is longer than Ariza also, which helps him....that's just the eye test though because I haven't seen Ariza in person really. Our offense could use a guy in the 4th quarter that can not just hit a 3 pointer equally to Ariza, but that can also put the ball on the floor and take it to the hole strong as a one on one player if teams are loading up on Harden during that time, or Harden is tired. Gay is MUCH BETTER than Ariza at this. Actually, I think we do need more offense, even though to you the offense is "GOOD ENOUGH". I think we need to be ELITE or the BEST OFFENSE in the league in order to compete for a title, because we will NEVER be ELITE defensively. And I don't know if you know this or not, but Bev is NOT an OFFENSIVE player, unless you count him trying to play make as offensive. Gordon won't get any more time with the 2nd unit than he got in the last two games, so I don't see Bev coming back as improving the second unit....well unless MDA takes all minutes away from AnusSewer, but that's more a function of them not playing than Bev's offensive prowess. If we sign DMo, sure that makes our bench stronger, but that has no reflection on if Gay or better for this team or not, or better than Ariza or not. And we are NOT an amazing offensive team, Harden is an amazing OFFENSIVE BASKETBALL GOD! Without him, we have no offensive team that will beat other teams. That's why it needs to be strengthened. And again, while we will be one of the better offensive teams in the league this year, if we want to be considered a "contender" we need to take advantage of our strengths and increase them, by making our team ELITE and one of the best offensive teams in history to compete with the likes of the Warriors and Cavs...teams unlike ever assembled in the NBA before. Trying to balance out our offense and defense this year would be kind of futile, too much going on already. New coach, new players, Harden new position, etc. We need to MASTER one thing and work incrementally on the other. If we master the offense this year, we can really focus on improving the defense to top 10 next year. Plus, Gay is ALREADY a better rebounder than Ariza at the SF position. Feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong.
I wouldn't know about what sports center teaches because don't watch it, but everyone called Harden an iso player also, and now he is performing like a basketball god in the right offensive system for him. And in this conversation, the bench is irrelevant because RUDY GAY is much better than Ariza and should start, not come off the bench. He will open the floor up much more for Harden because he can shoot the 3 just as good as Ariza, but also put the ball on the floor to score more efficiently than Ariza. Calling Gay narrow minded without providing any proof or statistics is kind of irrelevant to proving anything. The ONE person I wouldn't trade for Gay IS Anderson. Anderson does so much more for Harden than most realize, and heypartner has pointed out. He stretches every teams defense and takes their PF out of the lane for Harden to do whatever he wants. Anderson has a quick shot that he will consistently shoot from 4 feet behind the 3 point line, so the other teams PF has to respect that and can't leave him because he is shooting 45% from 3pt land and Harden WILL get the ball to him every time if they leave him. Gay is NOT that type of player. Playing him at the 4 would not do for Harden what Anderson does. Plus regardless of his other faults, Anderson rebounds very decently for a stretch 4. Check his averages and per game rebounds. That's all you can ask of him for what he is. Is not not Cousins or the Unibrow, nor did we expect that. So they would not demand the same spacing because while Gay can hit a 3 pointer, he is not as good as Anderson, and his range isn't as far out as Anderson's. Also, Gay's job would not be to run the PnR with Harden anymore than it's Ariza's job. I can't remember one PnR with Ariza this season yet. WCS on the other hand, would be a good option, but that's not the topic here, Gay is. Gay would accept being a role player because that's what he is now, and what he has always been. He has NEVER been a superstar first option on any team. Gay has always accepted his role to my knowledge, even if it wasn't an ideal role for him on whatever given team. As long as Anderson can hit open 3 pointers at a 45% clip like he is doing now, although it may go down, he will be the perfect stretch 4 to pair with Harden. I am more concerned if he can continue to keep up his rebounding numbers. Long term, I see no problems with his contract if he can play like the 1st 8 games. There is reason to think that he can get better as the team gels and gets to know each other better.
oh yea ik harden is way supeior but he might need to be one of those players that just needs a good situation but I could be very wrong
