durvasa, I am not sure if I totally agree with your order. But I know arguing that is pointless in this kind of a list. I think Yao is probably most similar to Parish among all those big men in terms of all around talent and impact. Let Yao play with Bird and McHale and he'll win multiple championships. So wherever people want to rank Parish, I'd put Yao in that vicinity.
I put those 2 criteria of mine high but I'm not that dumb to believe that Yao is not better than Jermaine Oneal. No way is Yao above 4 time defensive player of the year Mutombo. What has Yao ever lead the league in? Oh yeah DOUBLE TEAMS!(which is not even a stat but Yao fans love to bring it up like it is.)
Hmmm ... someone doesn't belong. But I liked your groupings. I probably should have done something similar in the first post. I wasn't trying to do an exact ordering. Just sort of a default order that others could use a basis to gauge where Yao should fit.
Don't you guys also have to consider different rules against centers now and then. If Yao were born 10 years earlier, I don't know, he might not be right there with the greatest but not far either (yes I am a homer ).
I don't think the rules matter because the game was more physical and faster. Shaq is still a top 5 center and he's almost 40. If a guy like howard can avg 22 , what makes u think those older guys couldn't put up more? I think yao is behind zo. Zo in his prime was better than yao in his prime. Yao in his prime isn't even the best player on his team.
I think the rules do matter, at least in terms of how performance is skewed. With the current set of rules, Yao's offensive weaknesses are greatly magnified and more easily exploited. The whole fronting scheme and the way defenders push on him, then flop on him, in that order, destroys his offensive production. Put Yao in the post in the 90s, and he could stand toe to toe with Robinson, Ewing, Divac, Dougherty, Mutumbo. Not Hakeem though, he'd destroy Yao. Yao's defense may be the same though, no matter the rules. Its not the rules fault he's weak against the pick and roll. Not the rules fault he tries to draw charges sometimes. Especially not the rules fault when he fouls a 80% FT shooter at midcourt in the final minute of the game, with 20 seconds left on the shot clock, when we're leading, causing him to foul out. (But usually he's smarter than that, but he's never going to live that down) Though, to be fair, in the 90s, there weren't as many premiere PG and wing man to destroy Yao with their quickness, so his weakness wouldn't be as exposed. If anything, he'd be playing more defense agsinst the likes of Robinson and Ewing, which plays to Yao's strength.
The rules do make a difference, you're right. My interest with this thread isn't so much comparing Yao with the other players, assuming similar playing conditions. That's more of a "what if?" type topic, and that's not what I intended this thread to be about. The Rockets want to build around Yao and have him be the main guy. There aren't a ton of teams in today's league that are going that route of building around a center -- Orlando is another. Maybe San Antonio could be considered one, though Duncan is more versatile than your typical center. If this is the model the Rockets are banking on, what level of play should we expect from Yao in order for this team to get where we want it to be? Historically, what type of centers lead great teams, and what players did they have around them? If the league has changed such that its harder for a player like Yao to dominate then, yeah, maybe Yao would be more effective playing in another era. But the important question is whether it makes sense to build around him in the present if he can't raise his level of dominance.
Yao ming himself put it best: I am only good enough to tie Hakeem's shoe. (or something close to that quote)
what are you guys talking about? yao is in the class of his own. there is no one like him. yao is the g.o.a.t. well seriously, can we at least wait until he finishes his career? (same goes to dhoward, amare, etc.) guess people get bored sometimes.
My intention wasn't to judge Yao's career compared to the rest. I think some have interpreted it that way, but that's not the point. Assessing Yao's accomplishments is a different topic, and you're right it would be unfair to do so at this point. After 7 years, I think we have a pretty good idea of what Yao's ceiling is the rest of the way. How does that stack up to the peak years of some of the best centers to have ever played on elite teams? If we understand where Yao fits in there, than I think we can maybe gain better understanding of what it will take to build a winner around him.
he also had a quadruple double. yao fits right below robinson and above ewing. by the end of yao's career; that's where he'll be. altho, if he were playing in the league anytime pre-2001, his stats would b quite different.
I see someone just started watching hoops. You do know ewing had a 6 yr stretch where he was 24-11 right? I guess not.
But even Old Shaq and Dwight Howard, though they're putting up good numbers, don't get the same number of touches and shots that the big time centers in the early to mid 90s would get. But its hard to determine if that's due to a shift in rules or because they're just not as good. It's hard not to notice that big men don't dominate the game offensively like they did 15 years ago. Getting rid of the old illegal defense rules, I would think, plays some part in that.
bugerking3 put it well. The rules matter to some extent. It happens that it affect Yao's weaknesses. Shaq and Howard are the same type of player. Brute force and athleticism. Neither Shaq nor Howard have the offense going through them. Their offense feeds off perimeter plays. They do not get doubled before having the ball. Shaq always has a great perimeter player to draw the defense. That's why the rules do not affect him that much. If Howard has trouble scoring against Yao, how much trouble would he have against the likes of Hakeem, Robinson and Ewing?
