solid list, wes. I'd move Yao down to the next tier, below Deke and Zo (and I'd have Amare at the bottom of that tier thus far).. but i still like it
To me, the main argument for moving Mourning up is his durability. I don't really think he was as good as any in the tier above him at their respective peaks. If anything, I'd create another tier with just he and Deke. I debated dropping him some, but I don't think you could make an argument for dropping him below Ben Wallace. I ended up leaving him mostly for fun-to-watch reasons.
Of course the team was worse when T-Mac wasn't in the lineup. The team IS WORSE without the healthy T-Mac THIS year, despite some people here think. T-Mac did not miss too many games last year. I don't have time to dig things out. But I distinctly remember last year when T-Mac was out and we beat a good team, I said, "This was something we could not do under JVG." He averaged 22-11 last season, and 25-9 the season before that. That kind of numbers could rank him top 5 centers in any era.
Well you may look at that and see that Amare is ~+7 wins but i see it as the rotation of Tim Thomas and Kurt Thomas were ~-7 wins. Similar to what happened with Boozer in Utah this season. IMO, their problem wasn't not having Boozer in the starting lineup but not having Milsap coming off the bench. Part of the reason i don't think Amare contributes much to winning is his style of offense. He's not much of a post-up player, more like a strong SF. So, he can't create for his teammates. If he touches the ball, he's either scoring or the other team is getting the ball.
He doesn't create many shots with the ball in his hands, true. But when he's rolling to the basket, he attracts a lot of attention because he's able to catch and finish so well in traffic. He can also open up the middle of the lane because you can't leave him on those 18-20 foot jumpers at the top of the key.
Yes, but those top centers averaged that for their careers. So a career Year for Yao was a career average for the top 5. While I dont think anyone would argue that Yao is a top 5 center in THIS era(wing player emphasis post 2000) he certainly is not among the top 5 or 10 of all time. Every player on the list had solid ppg/rebounding averages. And those rare few who didnt were defensive juggernauts.
right...Luis Scola with better finishing ability and worse defense. He just doesn't seem like a dominant player to me. I mean, if you look at the numbers JO wasn't nearly as good offensively when he was healthy but guys could feed off him, that's huge. If he couldn't play do you think the Pacers would have made it to the eastern conference finals? Amare just doesn't seem to have much impact.
What!!!! are you kidding me. If Yao played in a different era than now then Yao would get abused. The NBA was a lot brutal back then and more physically. Now a days in the NBA they stopped the physical play compared to different eras.
Yao would do BETTER back then. He wouldnt have to worry about all the flopping. Just think about his numbers when he plays guys like Shaq, Howard, Duncan, Kaman, etc. Those guys dont flop around on defense. Back when guys like Ewing, Dream, Walton, Robinson, Parish, and Russell played, men played like men. If you beat em, you earned it and they congratulated them afterward. There was none of this pansy flying backward like the post guy has a cannon on his butt that he just fired into your midsection kinda crap.
If you replace Dream with Yao vs the 86 Lakers, we'd lose. The Lakers were a fast breaking team and even old Kareem back then could run. Dream's speed and athleticism surely helped on transition defense. Ralph was very fast and quick. Yao would be good against the Celtics since they were more of a half court team. but then again, he'd get in foul trouble with McHale and Parrish under the boards.
Yao would not do better back then because he would have had to hold Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing or Zo....and all of those guys were big athletes that could shoot...and they didn't seem to tire. They would eat Yao alive. So would a younger Shaq with all his explosiveness. Please realize how pathetic the center position is today. Yao is great for today and would not be a scrub then, but I wouldn't give him the advantage over any of those dudes. Again, he can't keep Boozer from lighting him up.....
Yao is middle of the road here. More specifically: He's above average offensively but below average defensively. Yao is also hurt by the era in which he plays. IMO he would have been best in the mid to late 70s when the NBA was slower and with no zone defense. You know it's true.
I didn't say he would gain an advantage over them. But I think he would coexist peacefully in the heirarchy of centers back then, be it Dream and Zo, or Unseld and Walton. He would compete with them well, and his numbers would be solid. The league had fodder centers back then and thats who the great ones got a majority of their stats against. Sure, Dream lit up the Admiral in the 95 WCF, but then again, Robinson had decent numbers himself. Kareem was slightly exaggerating in Airplane when he said something about dragging Walton and Reed up the court for 48 minutes. Every team did not have a dominant center, but a larger majority than today for sure. Sure, he would have trouble guarding Olajuwon. But then again, so did Ewing, Shaq, Mourning, and even Sam Perkins when he played him legit.
Oh, I would never wish that. Just saying that Yao would coexist in that era along with Kareem, Daugherty, Sampson, Parrish, etc. As for foul trouble with Parrish/McHale, that would probably be dependent on who had home court as to who would be in foul trouble more often.
I think yao would be good in the 80's, but he would be 6 or so vs 2nd now. The rules don't matteer because wings have always been the high scorers. The iso would help and hurt yao vs the premier bigs. Those guys would face him up all day and take him off the dribble. Basically what boozer and jefferson do except by a 7ft er. I think people are short changing daughtery and zo in their rankings. Like I've said, when if howard can avg 22 with limited offense, okur can avg 17, and a 40 yr old shaq avg 17, there isn't a excuse about zones or wing players. Also, if people think yao is played physical now, go watch 94 finals.
I never said or implied that yao is greater than hakeem. just b/c someone could give him a matchup problem doesnt make him greater. and the only reason I said Yao couldve taken the rox to 7 games was b/c I think any center wouldve been able to take them to 7 games b/c hakeem was not only taking on the burden of breaking the rockets curse but the entire city of houston's sports curse. I said however that by the end of his career i think he will have at least 1 ring and could post similar numbers to Ewing thus i put him right above Ewing but under Robinson. Hakeem is top 3 to me. i think u need to go back and read the posts more carefully instead of bandwagoning with these "Original My Opinion is the only Opinion" members here.
definitely not top 10, but in the end, he'll end up between 11-15 somewhere, if he wins a ring or two, he'll end up top 10.
