Yao had definitely been the best player on this year's team. We'll see how far he leads them in the playoffs. It's also an unfair comparison you made between last year and this year. McGrady hasn't been close to himself really at any point this season. Yao was stil a big time contributor last season before his injury. Frankly, I'm surprised the Rockets are winning as many games as they have without McGrady. I got to give Yao some credit for that, as well as the rest of the teammates. If was told before the season what kind of injury issues we'd be dealing with, I would not have predicted even 50 wins.
You can see the CLEAR contrast between those who came to this BBS because of Yao and those that came here because of the championship years and Olajuwon. And if/when Yao gets traded, they will take their silly arguments to the Lakers BBS and talk about how Yao is just as good if not better than Kareem. Silly, silly rabbits.
A 25-11 center is not elite? Yes they couldn't win without Tracy... for two reasons, I think. First, the rules. I know you don't believe the rules make any difference. I do. Today's centers need a great perimeter player to punish the opponent's doubling without the ball. In the past eras, they could post up and get the ball without any problems. Second, JVG. JVG was a great defensive coach. But he is as unimaginative offensively as you can get. His offense pretty much consisted giving the ball to McGrady and let him create. Of course they could not win with Tracy. Last season (without Artest and Wafer) proved that Adelman could win without McGrady. And Yao was on MVP level before the injury. It is not a stretch to put Yao among the great centers. He is not one of the tops. But he is "average" among the greats when healthy.
I joined this board the same time when we got Yao. But don't put me among those you-know-what. I've been a Rockets fan since before Yao was born, before Olajuwon left Africa. According to your logic, I could say belittle things about those who became fans because of Olajuwon, who have never seen Calvin Murphy dominate a game. I know you are not talking about me in particular. But I hate generalization statements like this, grouping people with dates or whatever.
why do we have to assume that his father is the same age. you dont have any friends who are older than you? but i guess his lack of response is a tell that he was BSing.
EEEEEEEEEASY there Easy! Of course I don't mean you. But if you been here long time, you know what I am referring to. The blow up on this site of people who will leave ASAP as soon as Yao is not around is crazy! T-Mac didn't have this type of following when he got to Houston. Or its probably because he ended up being overrated? I don't know. Who cares if you ask me. But to talk about a player who SINGLEHANDEDLY put Houston on the ENTIRE sports landscape and claim something STUPID like Olajuwon would have trouble with Yao is just a little much. Yea, Sam Perkins gave him fits. But Sammy had Kemp and he had Payton and he had Schremp...they purposely targeted Olajuwon to make him go away from the basket on defense and that opened up the lane for everyone. Now, put Yao and Dream...one on one....OMG, that would be ugly. The minute Yao THINKS about putting the ball on the floor, Olajuwon would pick his pocket and dribble between his legs down slam it. Yao could shoot over Olajuwon. But that means Yao can't miss. The minute he does, game over. And how crazy is that argument? NOBODY in their RIGHT minds put Kobe and Jordan on the same level. Jordan was bigger, stronger, better offensively, better defensively....and Kobe has 3 rings, an MVP and is All-NBA! Come back to me kids!
Hmm... pretty interesting topic, I think Yao definitely ranks among the best centers of all time (especially once things are all said and done). There's no doubt he hasn't been, and probably never will be, Hakeem, Wilt, Shaq, or Kareem good, but considering his current body of accomplishments and what he's likely to still do I think anyone would be a fool to not put him amongst the top 10 centers of all time. I still think he is a better center than Dwight Howard at this point in Howard's career, even though Howard's game is more flashy and shows up more in stats, and that Yao has been the best center in the league for a few years now (though Howard may soon overtake that title). Of course, Yao has mostly played in a league where the true center has been replaced by hybrid Center/Forwards, but even with that taken into consideration the only Center/PF that can really claim possible superiority over Yao is Duncan; though Duncan has out achieved Yao Ming due to supporting cast as much as actual talent. In my opinion, Yao may still move up a few spots, but this is the current order in which the great centers should be listed: Wilt Chamberlain (LAL, PHI) Bill Russell (BOS) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (MIL, LAL) Shaquille O'Neal (LAL, ORL, MIA) Hakeem Olajuwon (HOU) Moses Malone (PHI) Tim Duncan (SAS) Yao Ming (Hou) David Robinson (SAS) Patrick Ewing (NYK) Bill Walton (POR) Kevin McHale (BOS) Elvin Hayes (WAS) Alonzo Mourning (MIA) Dwight Howard (ORL) Robert Parish (BOS) Dave Cowens (BOS) Willis Reed (NYK) Amare Stoudemire (PHO) Dikembe Mutombo (ATL) Brad Daugherty (CLE) Jermaine O'Neal (IND) Wes Unseld (WAS) Ben Wallace (DET) Rik Smits (IND) Kevin Duckworth (POR)
so those who came with yao are "silly rabbits", but those who came "because of the championship years and olajuwon" are not? excellent logic. you may have your favorites, they may have theirs. to claim yours is superior is the most common yet silly thing in sports.
Um, last year was pretty similar to previous years regarding the no T-Mac record. It was slightly improved over JVG, but the team was still worse when he wasnt in the lineup. But as you say, there was no Artest or Wafer on that squad to pitch in from that spot on the floor. Would this statement be any better or worse?? Because thats what I think of when I consider this divide. Perhaps thats what Almu was referring to. "You can see the CLEAR contrast between those who came to this BBS because of Yao and those that came here because they have been Rockets fans all/nearly all their life."
LMFAO I thought i was giving Yao credit by putting him in the same group as Zo in his prime, who has accomplished much more. Now people are saying he's better than Patrick Ewing, David Robinson, and even Hakeem Olajuwon! Everyone else should do what i'm doing. Remember the nicks of all these people who are making all these outrageous comments about how Yao would give these great centers trouble and remember to not take any of their posts about Yao seriously.
Yeah, I'm guilty of putting him above Robinson and Ewing, but I did it not solely based on what Yao has achieved so far but rather what I expect him to have achieved upon retirement. Based on past and present, but not the future, I'd put him behind Robinson and Ewing, but still above the level of someone like Alonzo Mourning. Robinson and Ewing, and guys like Bill Walton and Kevin McHale, rank above Yao Ming in playoff success but are equal to/less than Yao in terms of talent and performance-I think. We'll never know for sure, but had Yao played during the Robinson/Ewing/Hakeem era I think he would have been right there with those guys stats and success wise year in and year out. And don't forget, Yao might not have even played his best basketball yet.
That's cool. I said in the OP that you can consider Yao's future as well. I don't think he'll ever reach Robinson's or Ewing's level, but I'm looking for a range of opinions here.
In my mind, in approximate order, separated by tiers: Hakeem Olajuwon (HOU) Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (MIL, LAL) Wilt Chamberlain (LAL, PHI) Bill Russell (BOS) Shaquille O'Neal (LAL, ORL, MIA) Tim Duncan (SAS) David Robinson (SAS) Moses Malone (PHI) Patrick Ewing (NYK) Bill Walton (POR) Elvin Hayes (WAS) Kevin McHale (BOS) Robert Parish (BOS) Yao Ming (HOU) Dave Cowens (BOS) Willis Reed (NYK) Dwight Howard (ORL) Amare Stoudemire (PHO) Dikembe Mutombo (ATL) Alonzo Mourning (MIA) Brad Daugherty (CLE) Wes Unseld (WAS) Jermaine O'Neal (IND) Ben Wallace (DET) Rik Smits (IND) Kevin Duckworth (POR)
The rules have nothing to do with Yao's lack of mobility, his butter finger hands, his inability to properly seal dudes off, his unwillingness to lay the wood when dudes drive and the general lack of aggression that he sometimes shows...which can result in him going an entire 4th quarter without taking 1 shot. The last two are mental things....stuff that's not in his nature for whatever reason. Some of these centers that you are comparing Yao to would have no issues with these rules because they were mobile bigs, and usually aggressive. Especially one like Hakeem, who might punch you if he didn't get the ball. The rules don't stop Howard from dominating. If he had any kinda post moves it would be over.
It just seemed like some posters like yao123, bullardfan and killer instinct were implying it. All the comments about how Yao would give the Dream trouble were frustrating to read. Honestly, I don't think Amare belongs on this list. He scores alot but he has never shown to actually be key to winning. The suns have made it very far without him and they were terrible this season with him. All of the players in your last tier seem to have contributed more to winning.
The Suns dropped from 62 wins to 54 wins the season he missed. Most of us were surprised the Suns would play so well, but it was still a drop. And the next season, they won 61 games again. You wouldn't attribute a lot of that to Amare's presence? There are certainly other players involved (Joe Johnson leaving, bringing in Boris Diaw, the improvement of Barbosa). But Amare seemed like the big factor there. Amare is virtually a non-factor (and sometimes a negative factor) on the defensive end, but he's a truly elite offensive player IMO. I think he belongs.
