Where does the Miami Heat's talent rank for all time?

As of right now, not even one of the top ten teams of all time. They won 58 games in the regular season, they haven't exactly been cruising through the postseason (nothing like the 83 76ers or 01 Lakers)- http://www.nba.com/history/toptenteams_index.html

In terms of trios, probably the best since all 3 stars are in their primes but in terms of overall team, they have ways to go (alot of talent the must surround this big three with).

 

Id put all 80's Celtic n Laker teams, Detroit Bad Boys, Shaq n Kobe Lakers, Michael Pippen n Rodmans bulls, n 2008 Celtics all more stacked from players 1-12.

 

It's their first year and I think they're only going to get better, so let's slow down a bit before we start placing them anywhere in the history books.

 

this team is actually not very talented from top to bottom. this team is extremely top heavy, and it's basically lebron/wade or bust.

the 08 boston team would beat this team pretty easily.

the heat team is still raw, and still a few pieces from completion. the fact that they might win the finals this year tell you how great lebron/wade are.

 

I don't see a team in that list that would have 3 max players on it were the salary cap, CBA, etc. the same as it is now, comparing them to the other teams/players in the league at that time. Nor do I see a team in the list where the 2 best players in the game decided to team up in their primes.

 

I don't know about Bron and Wade being the absolute best players in the game. Best at their position? Easily. But with guys like Howard, Rose, CP3, Deron, etc, not really sure about two absolute best players in the game today. Two top 5 players? Probably.

Kobe and Shaq were two top 5 players on the same team during their primes in this modern era (salary cap, CBA, etc). They are not on that list but I am sure you would consider them to be easily among the greatest teams ever (specifically 2001 where they dominated the playoffs)

 

76ers: Moses Malone, Dr J, Andrew Toney and Mo Cheeks is number 1 in my book. If Andrew Toney had managed to no hurt his feet there would have been another couple of titles for that group.

 

Or how few really good teams there are in the league.

Every championship team in the OP beats this Heat team I think. Curiously enough, they would probably best match up against the Bulls, as they had no dominant center or PG.

Detroit would wear them down over 4 quarters.
The Heat wouldn't know what to do with Olajuwon offensively or defensively, not to mention the shooters and Horry and Elie and Drexler as wing defenders.
Boston's front line dismantles Bosh and dominates the boards... The Heat can beat some teams with jump shots but not those Celtics.
Shaq warps the floor and Kobe would relish the competition.
Magic and Kareem are huge mismatches for the Heat, Coop takes Wade.
Moses would control the boards and Bobby Jones would D up LBJ.

Those were all teams in the best sense and it will take a great team to beat the top talent the Heat have.

 

I have a feeling that the recent Detroit championship team could give the current Heat a good run on 7 games. Maybe even win it.

 

The 86 Celtics was one of the best teams ever built. That front line was just sick.

 

The issue with Miami's talent that they legitimately have 2 players are are in the conversion for being in the Top 5 players at present (#5AP) and who have been in that discussion for the past few years.

Not only does that almost never happens, the demeanor, attitude, and manner with which they team was put together adds to the feeling that this team is "not natural", you know like the difference between man-made/not-intended by nature and organic.

For example:

2000's Spurs: Duncan easily Top 5 player. Parker & Ginobli are very good, but neither have ever even been 1st team NBA player.

90's/00's Lakers: Shaq was best player in NBA arguably. Kobe was very good too, but how many people really thought he was one of the #5AP at the time. It was not until Shaq was gone that Kobe was in that conversation.

90's Bulls: Jordan great. Pippen was side-kick. Great player, but not a Top 5 player.

90's Rockets: Hakeem dominant. Drexler was great but #5AP? That is pushing it a bit.

90's Jazz: I would put Stockton & Malone as both being #10 players at that present time, but not so sure of being #5. It was one of those weird symbiotic relationships sort of like what Nash & Stoudamire had a few years back, but the system was really what did it.

80's Pistons: Isiah was great, but he was barely in the discussion of #5AP and still behind Bird, Magic, Jordan, & Hakeem. That's not even thinking about Lambeer, Rodman, & Dumars.

80's Lakers: Magic was dominant. Worthy was good. Jabar was not the truly Top 5 player he had been prior to. He couldn't take over as much as before, but could for spells change the outcome of a game or series. This is would the last team that could compete with Heat's star power. However, though the superb supporting cast allowed a 35-39 yo Jabar to conserve his energy to certain aspects, and not have to excel at all times.

80's Celtics: Bird was dominant. Parish & McHale were great players, but it is one of those things. Could Parish or McHale have led a contender without Bird or considered one of the #5AP during that time period? They were amazing players but if you had to take a Center or PF that played in the mid 80's do you take McHale over Hakeem/Jabar/Barkley/Malone/Ewing/Sampson/etc. much less Magic/Jordan/Isiah/Wilkins/Moncrief/Drexler.

80's 76ers: This is really the only competition I can see for the Heat in the last 30 years. A dominant MVP-level player changing teams to join another MVP level player. Both Malone & Dr. J were #5AP for a few years together, and the star talent level of that team rivals that of the Heat. Yet, even with a very good support cast of Bobby Jones, Maurice Cheeks, and A. Toney, they only won 1 title.

The issue with Miami's talent is their stars, not the bench/supporting cast, outshine previous contenders. In fact this Miami team probably has one of the worst supporting casts I can remember from a viable NBA Finals winning team. They have gotten away with it because their 2 #5AP players are playing at such a high level throughout the playoffs, and their third star/really good player is also playing at a high level. Because they are doing so well already, and most people feel that the the supporting cast can only improve over time, allowing an "expected dynasty" to be created.

Star wise their talent level to me is probably only 2nd to those 76ers. If you want to include the entire roster/supporting cast, then most of those prior teams to me are still better/greater than the current Heat roster, but in 5-6 years no one knows if that will still be the case.

 

Lebron himself said (controversially)

Oddly enough watering down of the league would seem to favor parity, which I like. (Though its still been the SAME teams appearing in the Finals for 10+ years, which does NOT indicate parity )

 

See that is a misunderstanding.

The watering down of the league offers a more opportunity for parity. With more teams, a championship team does not have be as stacked to win a title. So the end result is not as difficult to attain. However you still have two barriers: 1) Luck to get a player to build around & 2) Having an organization/executives that can create a championship caliber supporting cast.

A lot of teams have been lucky to get a player that under certain circumstances could be the centerpiece of a contender; however, very few organizations have the leadership and acumen to truly build a championship caliber supporting cast.

Just because the league has become somewhat more watered down, does not mean that a crappy team that lands a great player (Garnett to the T-wolves, Lebron to Cavs, Griffin to Clippers, Paul to Hornets) will win a title without the organization doing its part.

 

They're good enough to win now which is downright scary.

Imagine where this team can be once they sign players under market values with their MLE.

 

A "prosthetic" team? Going way back, also in Florida though another sport, its similar to the '97 Florida Marlins who bought out all their talent to a World Series ring. There wasnt any kind of genuine homegrown feel to it, they just brought in a bunch of hired mercenaries.

The main trio of Lebron/Wade/Bosh can at least say they are all friends. Kinda like Alex Rodriguez going to the Yankees with his bud Derek Jeter there. But "bond" and "familiarity" still doesnt mean organizational team development from the "roots".

Right. Which is how I like it. I said the repeat Finals teams "seemed to indicate" lack of parity. Intentionally a little short of staying "there is STILL NO PARITY". Cuz I'm wanting to give credit the ORGANIZATIONS for being better than anyone else.

 

To answer the question: Miami is so TOP HEAVY.

The NAMES on the roster look great if you consider the 5-6 years ago versions of them.
Mike Bibby,
lgauskas,
Mike Miller,
Erick Dampier,
Jamal Magloire
(Juwan Howard),

All of them former starters. Just THOSE GUYS on a team together in 2005, with no "Big Three" would be a low seed playoff team in the East. But now they're not so good.

The 2006 Heat team that won the championship also had a few "shell of their former selves" brand names like Gary Payton, Alonzo Mourning and Shandon Anderson. That team only won 52 games. So maybe we're being a bit unfair to the current team.

Talent is top 10'ish, until they win some hardware.

 

There are many teams I would put ABOVE the 2010-11 Miami Heat, not only due to their overall roster, but also due to fit and the level of the top talents.

IMO the Bulls of Jordan, Pippen & rodman, kukoc etc, are clearly better. As are the Lakers of Wilt, Baylor and West, the Lakers of Shaq, Kobe, Rice or Horry, fox, fisher etc.
These teams are better in terms of top talent as well as overall fit and roster.

The Lakers of early 80's team of Magic, Kareem, Worthy, Wilks, Cooper, Scott and the Celtic teams of Bird, Mchale, Parish, Ainge, Johnson, Maxwell are arguably as talented in terms of top 3, but they are also far better fits as well as possessing greater overall talent. The 81 and 82 Sixers team of Mose Malone, Irving, Dawkins and Cheeks are also in the conversation.

While Lebron is the best player in the league and one of the best players of all time, 2010 Wade is not only a far cry from 2006 Wade, hes also not exactly the best fit with Lebron, like Pippen was to Jordan, Mchale to Bird, Kobe to Shaq, Kareem to Magic or Wilt to West. Bosh may be a top 20 player, but for the role he plays on the team, which is essentially to hit spot up jumpers, finish around the rim off James or Wade, play defense and rebound, he is just an adequate fit.

The 2010 Heat are not in the convo as the greatest assembled team of all time, NOT EVEN CLOSE. Perhaps in following seasons, IF they added depth (pg center), IF Mike Miller and Haslem stay healthy and play to their potentials, then and only then can they even get into the conversation.

Personal ranking of Historic top 3 talents (when they played together) :

1. Jordan, Pippen, Rodman
2. Wilt, Baylor, West
3. Bird, Mchale, Parish
4. Magic, Kareem, Worthy
5. Shaq, Kobe, Rice
6. Lebron, Wade, Bosh