Where Does the Conservative Anti-Government Mantra Come From?

I'll let you know how I feel on issues:

Education - State & Local issue. Leave Washington out of it.

Gay Marriage - This is no business of the governments at all. Marriage is a religious ceremony. I want government to have nothing to do with marriage.

Safety - Single most important service of the Government

Abortion - I want it to be illegal. I also think that murder, theft, & rape should be illegal.

Healthcare - The government is welcome to provide healthcare. There should be a right to refusal. Adults should have to pay some sort of costs. I think Premiums should exist for Medicaid for the many that can afford even $50/month. There should be co-pays for any system. People will be at the doctor who have no business being there if it is free to them. Mostly I think a government ran insurance company that survives on its own accord should be created to compete with Insurance companies, though that will not do nearly what people think it will to cut costs. I have a huge problem with every idea brought forth and that is true freedom of choice which does not exist now, and won't exist anytime soon.

My idea of shrinking the government is shrinking government spending. There is way too much inefficiency in the Government. I don't believe Republicans truly believe in this though. They try to pretend now that they believe in curbing spending, but they won't do it.

 

I don't disagree with you there. Low interest rates and banks counting on fannie and freddie to back these loans were a huge part of the problem. Also, bank reserve requirements are way too low. When government backs bad debt, then that is a problem. Our nation is full of debt, which is all regulated by the government. We build a house of cards for decades, tediously balancing every card, but one day it will all come crashing down. Instead of learning from our mistakes, we quickly start to rebuild the same house in the same manner with the same cards. Nothing changes.

 

Problem is that if you leave it a state and local issue, you can't have a national standards across the board. Education to me isn't just a social issue, it's a national security issue. And we are in trouble there.

But marriage is a legal institution as well. It's not just a religious ceremony. With Marriage comes a great deal of tax implications, insurance implications, and other legal considerations (medical, death, etc). Marriage is defined by the gov't. Anyone can have a religious ceremony to say they are married..but unless you have a certificate from the gov't....are you really married?

I respect your stance on abortion - but currently it is legal. And as a legal medical procedure, how can one ask the gov't to not allow doctors to carry it out? Shoudl the gov't say that risky brain surgery should not be attempted because it might result in the death of the patient???

I agree with everything here.

 

A lot of this has to do with how the US was settled and founded by people fleeing oppressive governments or people and groups living apart from others. So a large part of the US is made up of people already predisposed to be suspicious of government. At the sametime the US frontier has mythologized the idea of the individual making their own way not depending on government.

 

Capitalism is founded on the principal of debt Space Ghost. Our whole economy is built upon it. The banking system, the fed - all of it, is based on Debt.

If there was no borrowing, we'd be like Russia and China.

The problem wasn't the gov't regulating it, it was that in the 90's and early 2000's, under both Clinton and Bush, the system was completely deregulated.

Things were allowed that never should have been allowed...like commercial banks and investment banks dipping into each others arenas. All of this created excessive risks that eventually were going to crack.

It was deregulation, not regulation which led to this mess. Had the deregulation never passes, than the system would have kept working.

 

I don't understand this post. You are portraying the EITC and the Medicaid as things forced on you. You can refuse to accept EITC and turn down Medicaid and take a private insurance where you pay some sort of premium. For that matter if you feel guilty accepting Medicaid when you should feel you should pay something why not donate some money to a medical charity?

 

You got it.

Lock 'er up.

 

I've seen this argument brought up a few times where the Government regulation or interference is blamed for the mess bank are in. Deregulation is not regulation and non-interference isn't interference. The banks were the ones who eagerly wanted the deregulation and it was the mistake of the government to listen to them. If you are blaming the government from a conservative standpoint it makes no sense to argue that they should've been regulated more as a support for an argument for less government.

 

So are you arguing that the fear of government is genetic? Come on, you cannot be serious.

 

Not genetic but cultural.

 

Have you been reading Alice in Wonderland again? From where are you getting this? Because you want a nose job, I should pay for it? Because a woman -- not raped because that is a different matter -- who "accidentally" got pregnant, I should pay for it? The outcome was from a choice. By comparison, cancer or heart disease or diabetes is not an outcome of choice.

Conservatives want the government out of the big brother game. Big Brotherism is liberal mantra. Good grief. Get your ideologies straight.

Do I believe in God? Absolutely. Must you? Absolutely not, unless you choose to do so. You are trying to force your ethics, or lack of them, on me .... not vice versa.

 

Comparing an abortion to a nose-job is quite extraordinary. I don't know how to react to that.

I like a gov't that doesn't get involved in people's personal decisions - about their sex life, about their familiy, and about things they do behind closed doors. Why conservatives want to regulate those things by saying gays can't get married, that teens can't have abortions, or that someone who smokes pot is a criminal and should be jailed is beyond comprehensions when they say "We want gov't to mind their own business". I mean, it's laughable.

I never impose my beliefs on anyone. You can hate gays, be pro-life, and hate pot-smokers. Personally, I find pot smokers annoying. But don't tell me what my daughters can or can not do, don't tell me who my sons can or can not marry, and please don't tell me what I can or can not smoke in my living room. Why are you trying to put your nose into other people lives thumbs?

And then you say you hate liberals because they are big brother??? It's Conservatives who passed the patriot act bub under a republican president. Not liberals. Conservatives are the big brothers.

Libearls are the bleeding hearts. They just want to make sure uninsured have insurances, that people get a good chance at an education, and that everyone has equal rights and freedoms. Yet conservatives twist that into being some sort of big brother??? give me a break.

Liberals have thier flaws - many of them. But being about gov't controlling people's lives is a total lie and piece of b.s. propaganda.

 

Good grief, part 2!

When have I ever said I hate liberals -- or anybody (SamFisher excepted, but then he's not anybody )! Cite the thread. Just because I disagree with some posters, that certainly doesn't mean I hate them. You are taking a page from vlaurio's book in making up stuff that I supposedly believe. Shall I do the same? No, that wouldn't be right and I would feel ashamed, as you should.

1) Nose jobs and abortions are by choice -- why should I pay for either?
2) I want all U.S. citizens to have access to effective health care. What is wrong with that?
3) I don't care how many abortions your teenaged daughters want to have. They can go weekly as long as your family pays for them -- not mine.
4) If you want the drug laws changed or any other law changed, emulate AndyMoon (I can't remember his new name) and work to change them. But, as long as a law is the law, it should be enforced equally.
5) Bush gave us the Patriot Act -- but has Obama repealed it? No, Obama has come closer to abusing it than Bush ever imagined.

Your views have become so skewed I can't even answer them all. Not all conservatives are Far Right. Not all liberals are Far Left. Someday I hope you discover the difference again.

 

You don't turn down free money(My EITC was around $300, and I got additional refundable credits with the child tax credit and retirement saving credit). I would settle for a true freedom of choice for my insurance. Because of the way the system is set up my employer pays my health insurance and I could take it or leave it. For less than what they pay for me I could get an insurance plan for my wife and son that fits our needs and I would go uninsured. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way because of tax benefits created for both the employee and employer.

When I talk about Medicaid program, I'm talking about instituting some graduated premiums. The child of a family at minimum wage would still get their child 100% covered, but the family of 3 making $30,000 would pay a premium of say $50/month tax free with $10 co-pays. It is about balancing it out so we are better off with my wife working, then staying at home.

I donate money all the time. Children's charities are very important to me including March of Dimes and St Judes.

 

I never really rebelled in the classic sense. My father, because he was poorly educated and the sole breadwinner since he was 9 years old (when my grandfather died), insisted that his children would have every book possible. He would not let us speak Spanish because he thought it would impede our education and/or social progression.

By the fourth grade, I had read Moby Dick, Ben-Hur and a great many other classics. By 12 my father considered me a man and to think for myself. We had outrageous debates while we played catch or watched the news -- my father calling up the wisdom of experience and I relying on the wisdom of literature. We were never angry with each other no matter how we disagreed.

In the Texas of my generation, there was only one party but with two distinct wings -- the Yarborough Democrats and the Connally Democrats. Republicans were non-existent. I suppose I followed Connally and his wing when they converted to Republicanism. For that Connally was smeared with a phony milk scandal to prevent him from running for President. IMO Texas John Conally would have trounced Jimmy Carter and would have become one of our greatest presidents.

But, I digress. My mother was the moderate Democrat who kept peace in the family (although my sisters were totally bored by politics). I think her moderation kept me from going hard right. However, it was my father who insisted that I had to decide what was right or wrong and to have the conviction to stand for what I believed, whatever it might be. He told me he fought in Europe from D-Day to V-E Day for just that right. I guess that's why my parents' generation is regarded as the greatest.

Also, in high school I read "The Price of Union" by Herbert Agar, still the finest piece of history ever written in my opinion. It only went through 1920 and sketched the early years of FDR's presidency (I think Agar wrote in 1936). However, I think that's when I first discovered my conservative roots and. coupled with my father's encouragement of individual thought, I never really left that path.

A few years after college I founded my first business while working as a reporter and continued making money as a part-time entrepreneur. Finally, one day I decided that what I really loved was business, and that's when I left reporting. My father, who hated business fat cats, always made an exception for me. He died at 88 in 1997, one of the best men I ever knew. And he was a Yarborough Democrat to the very end.

 

The simple reason for thumbs' strange political attributes (by american standards) is that he is a true fiscal conservative, as opposed to the ideologically obtuse and socially backwards variant common across the US that is generally referred to as the GOP.

Sadly, thumbs still does associate with and engage in many of the GOPs lamer and more outrageous factional assemblies *cough* tea parties *cough*.

 

rhad, those tea partiers can't be labeled Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, Socialists or Communists. All of the above -- and others -- are tea partiers. There are a lot of solid, though diverse, ideas. I guess the common thread that ties us together is that we are tired of getting screwed by politicians of all stripes.

 

Thumbs, your never-ending bbs trail-of-tears regarding the much maligned tea party fiascos is bordering on almost mythical, psychological-study inducing, absurdity.

If you'd like to play the "it's a diverse crowd" card, fine. But please, please, please at least admit that the vast majority (90%+) are republicans, and the most vocal majority of that group are fringe lunatics.

And don't lie - I know the truth of the tea party demographic (as do you, although you seem really uncomfortable admitting it). My family is full of them!

 

You're probably right about the majority being Republican, but you would also be right about most of them being business people. I'll give you an example of a tattoo parlor owner who is further to the left than anybody on the board will ever be. I get a Daily Kos memo almost every day, but we are both "cautious" about new tax policies. We find common ground on things like FICA taxes being extended without caps. The new party idea has died, but you should go to a tea party and get happily involved. It might change your mind. Heck, it might even blow your mind.