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Where does Giannis rank all-time following the 2021 NBA Finals?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by HardenVolumeOne, Jul 24, 2021.

  1. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    You literally just said that Curry could have been any other all-star. Harden was an all-star. So why didn't Durant go to Houston if all he needed was an all-star teammate?
     
  2. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    I'm confused at what you're mad about...because it seems like you're always mad about something. Are you mad that Iggy won it over Curry, that Curry didn't get any votes or that LeBron got votes?

    You want to talk about bias, that's fine. But a dude who had a vote that year, from the Akron Beacon Journal (should be in favor of LeBron) voted for Iguodala. His reasoning? "When Iguodala was off the court, LeBron shot 44 percent and the Cavs outscored the Warriors by 30 points. When Iguodala was on the court, he was James’ primary defender. James shot 38 percent and the Warriors outscored the Cavs by 55. If the Warriors didn’t have Iguodala, the Cavs would’ve won this series. That’s pretty valuable in my eyes."

    In that series, "[LeBron] averaged 35.8 points, 13.3 rebounds and 8.8 assists to become the first player to lead both teams in scoring, rebounds and assists in a Finals series." That's pretty damn dominant, and pretty damn valuable.

    iirc, that was the year / series in which LeBron literally had to drag the Cavs, without Kyrie and Love. GSW's entire gameplan was to defend LeBron, and he still went nuclear.

    source: https://waitingfornextyear.com/2015/06/andre-iguodala-lebron-james-nba-finals-mvp/

    In the modern era, the FMVP has still gone to a player from the winning team. Not sure how LeBron getting votes changes that. Talk up the "bias" all you want - if it's such a problem, what other Finals MVP decision do you have a problem with?

    Regarding OP's point values, even if "FMVP" got reduced to something less than 6.60 (and as such, another category increases), I doubt Curry would suddenly rise up the rankings. This is just someone's rating scale. Why don't you come up with one and we can pass judgment on your scale?
     
  3. Major

    Major Member

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    That's what you use when you need to argue that Kerr sucks.
     
  4. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    I'm not mad about anything. If anything, I'm annoyed by the double standard. Awards should be predictable; otherwise, they lose meaning. For instance, look at Westbrook's MVP. It was a huge deviation from how the MVP was normally awarded. Curry outscored Iggy by about 10 ppg. Has a player in that situation ever not received the FMVP?

    I'm also annoyed at the weight people want to place on the FMVP. It's decided by 11 voters while the other major awards have significantly more voters.

    By that same token, if the Warriors didn't have Curry, the Cavs would've also won the series.

    I understand that Curry underperformed relative to his expectations. I also understand that Iggy outperformed his expectations. But if you ignore expectations, Curry was more valuable than Iggy.

    Rankings can't be formulaic because there's no precise way to quantify a player's contribution to winning. It comes down to who can make the better argument. If you want, I'd be happy to provide my top 15 or so and argue its merits.
     
    malakas likes this.
  5. HardenVolumeOne

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    I bet Durant regrets ever going to the warriors with how he was treated by the media and fans there. What’s done is done, but other than winning those 2 rings, kd hated his time in the bay. He was always the scapegoat whenever the warriors lost a game. Similar to how mark jackson was the scapegoat prior to him and how James wiseman was the scapegoat this past season. Curry fans are not only delusional when it comes to currys place in history amongst the greats, they somehow think he is a perfect player that is never the reason for y the warriors lose
     
  6. HardenVolumeOne

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    plenty of posters on realgm agreed with the list and where harden and curry were ranked. It was only the warrior fans who had a problem with the list, they even bullied the op into revising the criteria( which he did) and harden still finished above curry
     
  7. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Doubt it. He won titles there. Would he have won them anywhere else? He cares about his legacy, and those titles elevated his legacy tremendously.

    Curry is easily in the top 20 all-time in the modern era. 3 titles, 2 MVPs, and the GOAT shooter/off-ball player. There's no legitimate argument you can make otherwise.
     
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  8. HardenVolumeOne

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    what you are thinking of is mvp shares( and author of the list) included that in his revised list
     
  9. HardenVolumeOne

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    except when you add up everything steph has won and the totality of his career he doesn’t measure out to a top 20 player of all time. Just outside the top 25 if one uses reasonable metrics and stats instead of arbitrary, opinionated stats like(“OMG HE CHANGED THE GAME”)

    Bottom line is curry is 34 and only has 4x 1st team all nba selections( there are players with double that amount)And while he has the 3 rings(he has zero finals mvp). Being the greatest shooter doesn’t help one ranking because his shooting is already included in his career stats. Fact is curry just doesn’t measure up to a top 15 player ever
     
  10. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Shooting isn't included in career stats since you're looking at total stats and not efficiency.

    How many players have won 2 MVPs? How many players have been the engine for multiple title teams as well as the greatest regular season team ever? Curry's resume measures up remarkably well.

    Like I said before, your logic is bad because it fails to consider winning which is the #1 goal of all players.

    Out of curiosity, what else do you think Giannis needs to achieve in order to surpass Harden on the GOAT list?
     
    malakas likes this.
  11. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    Which of the above players do you see losing with the teams Curry won on? I don’t see one.
     
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  12. OkayAyeReloaded

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    He developed a formula for a standard so credit to him for at least leveling the field to judge. I don't agree with all of it as it is of course arbitrary weightings of the creator's choosing.

    Also, things like MVP are more often similar to team accomplishments, in that the best player on one of the best teams usually gets it. So if the true best player had terrible teammates they wouldn't get MVP etc. and using accolades in general can be pretty flawed as well but to each their own.

    Giannis is likely top 40 or lower depending on what you value, as some like to see a finished career or more longevity to move players up, I'd have to really hash it out to truly place him. I prefer the RealGM top 100 project which, also not perfect by any means, has much more debate and varied perspectives.

    the top 100 project needs more Houston fans, to be honest, you can post on both forums.
     
  13. Asian Sensation

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    Plenty? I went back and checked. There’s like 3 people that agree. One of which is obviously you. Everyone else thinks it’s hot garbage, flaming trash and bs.
     
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  14. HardenVolumeOne

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    ive been banned from realgm because anyone who doesnt kiss currys behind doesnt last long there.. So no I dont have an account there.

    Most of the people disagreeing with the list were with where lebron and jordan were ranked. The others were steph curry fanboys
     
  15. HardenVolumeOne

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    Steve Nash won 2

    and James Harden may have less MVP's than curry overall, but he dwarfs curry is mvp shares
     
  16. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    MVP's matter. MVP shares don't.

    And how many titles did Nash lead the Suns to?

    Historically, MVPs and roles in title teams have shaped the GOAT list. Unfortunately for Harden fans such as yourself, Curry has excelled in those two categories. With the advent of analytics, efficiency is now being factored in. And unfortunately for you, Curry is the GOAT shooter.

    In the context of the GOAT list, no one will ever care about MVP shares or vorp or the other random stats you're cherry picking.
     
    #56 wekko368, Jul 25, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
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  17. Asian Sensation

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    Well if your posting was anything like it is here I’m not surprised. Did you make sure to remind them that Curry only won the MVPs cause he’s the right shade and Harden got screwed cause he’s too dark?
     
  18. HardenVolumeOne

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    nope all i basically said that curry is overrated by nba media members who only started following the nba in 2014 and elevate curry to lebron level when he is closer to walt frazier and steve nash than he is to magic or oscar. The mods on that site are curry fanboys
     
  19. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    I'm going to use this formula for everything I do the rest of my life.
     
    OkayAyeReloaded likes this.
  20. Asian Sensation

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    Walt Frazier? Magic? Oscar? b**** please… you never saw them play. You’re like 20 something. You barely saw Nash play.
     

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