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Where does Giannis rank all-time following the 2021 NBA Finals?

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by HardenVolumeOne, Jul 24, 2021.

  1. HardenVolumeOne

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    https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2106062

    Unbiased rankings from a poster from realgm.com


    The poster created an all-time NBA ranking formula metrics and every year he updates the numbers after the playoffs have concluded. The obvious big mover after 2021 is Giannis but his career is still young and he did not jump as many spots as most people think but the good news is he has so many more years to build on his steady foundation. At the end of 2020 Giannis was 38th and now after his impressive 2021 showing he is ranked 31 according to my formula. Like I'm saying his career is still so early he has plenty of time to keep rising. So does Curry, Harden and Durant but for guys like Westbrook his best years are well behind him. I use a 25-point ranking system that takes many things into consideration, things like MVP winners, FMVP winners, Rings, All NBA 1st team and 2nd team, All Defensive 1st and 2nd team, Top 3 MVP finishes, Top 5 MVP finishes, Top 3 Rebounding, Top 5 rebounding, PER over 25.0, WS/48 over .250, BPM over 7.0 (these are all looked at for RS and PO), All star selections, and other categories. After all these data points and calculations here is what the results produced from my "Magic is Magic, Magic Formula"

    1 ...LeBron James = 87.76
    2 ...Michael Jordan = 85.02
    3 ...Kareem A-Jabbar = 72.92
    4 ...Tim Duncan = 57.79
    5 ...Bill Russell = 56.13
    6 ...Wilt Chamberlain = 54.99
    7 ...Magic Johnson = 48.61
    8 ...Shaquille O'Neal = 46.63
    9 ...Kobe Bryant = 42.73
    10 ...Larry Bird = 39.21
    11 ...Hakeem Olajuwon = 35.54
    12 ...Kevin Durant = 33.25
    13 ...Karl Malone = 32.76
    14 ...Jerry West = 32.13
    15 ...Dirk Nowitzki = 31.22
    16 ...Moses Malone = 28.59
    17 ...David Robinson = 28.39
    18 ...Oscar Robertson = 28.37
    19 ...Chris Paul = 28.18
    20 ...George Mikan = 27.85
    21 ...Bob Cousy = 27.78
    22 ...Kevin Garnett = 27.44
    23 ...Julius Erving = 27.40
    24 ...Bob Pettit = 26.49
    25 ...Kawhi Leonard = 23.91
    26 ...James Harden = 23.63
    27 ...Charles Barkley = 22.78
    28 ...John Havlicek = 22.39
    29 ...John Stockton = 21.81
    30 ...Stephen Curry = 21.31
    31 ...Giannis Antetekuompo = 21.23
    32 ...Dwyane Wade = 20.52
    33 ...Dolph Schayes = 20.06
    34 ...Jason Kidd = 20.04
    35 ...Elgin Baylor = 18.81
    36 ...Willis Reed = 17.61
    37 ...Scottie Pippen = 17.41
    38 ...Steve Nash = 17.40
    39 ...Russell Westbrook = 16.82
    40 ...Elvin Hayes = 14.37
    41 ...Rick Barry = 14.02
    42 ...Walt Frazier = 13.82
    43 ...Anthony Davis = 13.32
    44 ...Allen Iverson = 13.11
    45 ...George Gervin = 13.05
    46 ...Patrick Ewing = 12.50
    47 ...Isiah Thomas = 12.00
    48 ...Paul Pierce = 10.86
    49 ...Bill Walton = 10.78
    50 ...Artis Gilmore = 10.50


    Giannis' impressive run jumped him up from 38 to 31 where he passed up
    Elgin Baylor
    Scottie Pippen
    Jason Kidd
    Willis Reed
    Russell Westbrook
    Dwyane Wade

    His combination of winning DPOY, FMVP, 2 MVPs with a lot of strong seasons has almost leaped him into top 30. I expect him to have a chance at top 10 if he can keep up his impressive play and suppress KD from winning MVP or FMVP he has strong for top 10.
     
    Milos likes this.
  2. HardenVolumeOne

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    i imagine a championship will vault harden into the top 20

    this is the most realistic ranking i have ever seen based on stats and productivity

    I wish Ben Taylor would release his formula of how he ranks players, but i have a better chance of convincing katherine mcnamara to marry me than for that too happen
     
    Milos likes this.
  3. HardenVolumeOne

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    also notice the curry fans in the replies crying, not realizing for currys entire career they have been lied too about his all-time ranking in history

    Here are the categories he used and the scored weighting for each category. Seems pretty logical to me

    Category --------> Wtd
    MVPS ------------> 6.60
    All NBA 1st -----> 1.35
    All Def 1st -----> 0.75
    All NBA 2nd -----> 0.95
    All Def 2nd -----> 0.40
    FMVP -----------> 6.60
    RS WS/48 > 0.25 ---> 0.50
    RS BPM > 7 ------> 0.50
    PO WS/48 > 0.25 ---> 0.85
    PO BPM > 7 ------> 0.85
    PO VORP > 2.5 ----> 3.50
    TOP 3 in MVP -----> 2.40
    Top 5 in MVP -----> 0.65
    RS PER > 25.0 -----> 0.50
    PO PER > 25.0 -----> 0.85
    RS Top 3 Reb -----> 0.75
    RS Top 5 Reb -----> 0.25
    RS Top 3 Ast -----> 0.75
    RS Top 5 Ast -----> 0.25
    RS Top 3 Pts -----> 0.90
    RS Top 5 Pts -----> 0.30
    Ring champ -----> 2.40
    Playoff WS ------> 0.50
    All-Star Selections ---> 0.40
    Reg Season WS ------> 0.04


    He said he'll post his updated top 50 results after he made this slight tweak later tonight( after curry fans bitched) he gave a little more weight to Rings, moving Chris Paul down some and Curry up some.


    After listening to feedback and adding a few more elements into the formula there are some slightly different results in the middle of the list. The top ten is mostly still the same (Russell and Duncan swapped places) but the top twelve is mostly set now and these players are usually in everyone's top twelve (maybe not Durant but he has the resume to go up against anyone else vying for top twelve status). The changes I made added slightly more value to winning an MVP, FMVP, Scoring top 3, Winning a Scoring Title, and MVP Win shares. These extra categories and score bumps added a nice smoothing effect that makes the results even harder to argue against. Here is the Magic formula it produces with the updates

    1. LeBron James 96.4
    2. Michael Jordan 95.4
    3. Kareem A-Jabbar 80.9
    4. Bill Russell 65.1
    5. Tim Duncan 63.0
    6. Wilt Chamberlain 61.0
    7. Magic Johnson 55.2
    8. Shaquille O'Neal 51.4
    9. Kobe Bryant 48.3
    10. Larry Bird 45.3
    ------------------------------------
    11. Hakeem Olajuwon 38.2
    12. Kevin Durant 36.9
    13. Jerry West 36.0
    14. Karl Malone 36.0
    15. Dirk Nowitzki 33.0
    16. David Robinson 31.9
    17. Oscar Robertson 31.5
    18. Moses Malone 31.5
    19. Bob Cousy 30.5
    20. George Mikan 30.5
    21. Julius Erving 30.4
    22. Chris Paul 29.9
    23. Bob Pettit 29.9
    24. Kevin Garnett 28.8
    25. Kawhi Leonard 27.0
    ----------------------------------
    26. James Harden 25.6
    27. John Havlicek 24.8
    28. Stephen Curry 24.7
    29. Charles Barkley 24.1
    30. Jason Kidd 23.7
    31. Giannis Antetokuonmpo 23.2
    32. Dwyane Wade 22.3
    33. John Stockton 21.6
    34. Dolph Schayes 20.7
    35. Elgin Baylor 20.6
    36. Scottie Pippen 19.9
    37. Willis Reed 19.5
    38. Steve Nash 19.4
    39. Russell Westbrook 18.1
    40. Elvin Hayes 15.5
    41. Walt Frazier 15.2
    42. Rick Barry 14.9
    43. George Gervin 14.8
    44. Anthony Davis 14.4
    45. Allen Iverson 14.0
    46. Gary Payton 13.5
    47. Bill Walton 13.3
    48. Isiah Thomas 12.8
    49. Patrick Ewing 11.2
    50. Paul Pierce 11.0

    --------------------------------
    Players Kevin McHale, Robert Parrish, Artis Gilmore, Chauncy Billups, Clyde Drexler, Reggie Miller were on the cusp of top 50 but did not make the point cut off. Paul Pierce's FMVP is what put him over most of these other players. Nothing is perfect and the formula is a work in progress as all things should be, after all times and things change but this is a very solid list and formula that I am proud to stand by. Also as some have pointed out if you compare this list to the Real GM voter panel list it is scarily similar and not terribly far off in many cases.
     
  4. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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    shame someone like iggy got a ridiculous FMVP, really makes that worth a lot less
     
  5. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Thunder drafts almost 8% of the greatest players of all time and wins 0 championships. That will always amaze me. I also am glad that I’m not a fan of the team. When they win a championship one day it will be amazing for them though.
     
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  6. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    dream
    yannis
    yao
    jerry lin

    that's how the list should go
     
  7. malakas

    malakas Member

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    You don't have to be a Curry fan to find it ridiculous that Curry is ranked bellow the likes of Malone, Stockton, Harden, Paul, Barkley etc.

    This list is a joke sorry.
     
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  8. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
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    Any system that puts a lot of weight on voted awards such as MVP, All NBA, etc. is not an objective system. Those awards do not actually measure objective achievements. They are the opinions of the voters. We might as well ask people to vote for the GOAT and be done with it.
     
  9. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Easter Egg Hunter - Tell me why? نحن عائلة

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    [​IMG]
     
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  10. HardenVolumeOne

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    I didn’t make the list. But the problem is you overrate curry. Zero finals mvps, only 4x all nba 1st teams. So many injured seasons in his prime. The poster on realgm has nothing against nba players. He uses a point system. And this is the ranking that it produced. This is probably the most accurate list I have seen in a while. No narrative or media hype, just accolades, and career numbers combining both playoffs and regular season

    let’s see Ben Taylor release his rankings on how he ranks players. Good luck getting that
     
    #10 HardenVolumeOne, Jul 25, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
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  11. HardenVolumeOne

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    This is the posters ranking point system. He rates playoffs higher than regular season. Currys 2 regular season mvps help him, as does his 3 rings. But his low vorp and win share total along with his zero finals mvps bring him down

    Category --------> Wtd
    MVPS ------------> 6.60
    All NBA 1st -----> 1.35
    All Def 1st -----> 0.75
    All NBA 2nd -----> 0.95
    All Def 2nd -----> 0.40
    FMVP -----------> 6.60
    RS WS/48 > 0.25 ---> 0.50
    RS BPM > 7 ------> 0.50
    PO WS/48 > 0.25 ---> 0.85
    PO BPM > 7 ------> 0.85
    PO VORP > 2.5 ----> 3.50
    TOP 3 in MVP -----> 2.40
    Top 5 in MVP -----> 0.65
    RS PER > 25.0 -----> 0.50
    PO PER > 25.0 -----> 0.85
    RS Top 3 Reb -----> 0.75
    RS Top 5 Reb -----> 0.25
    RS Top 3 Ast -----> 0.75
    RS Top 5 Ast -----> 0.25
    RS Top 3 Pts -----> 0.90
    RS Top 5 Pts -----> 0.30
    Ring champ -----> 2.40
    Playoff WS ------> 0.50
    All-Star Selections ---> 0.40
    Reg Season WS ------> 0.04
     
    Easy likes this.
  12. Fefo

    Fefo Member

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    He is only 26, whats the point of this exercise now? Once he is 35 we will know better where he finishes in the all time list.
     
    JumpMan likes this.
  13. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member

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    1. Jordan
    10. Hakeem
    12. Duncan
     
  14. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    we are not worthy of such goatness

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Is the players' goal to win a title? Or to establish a high vorp and win share total?

    That's why this methodology is laughably stupid.
     
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  16. HardenVolumeOne

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    newsflash 15 players win a title EVERY year, don’t come at me. I didn’t make the list. It’s unbiased and I think the ranking system is reasonable

    people saying you should rate overall peak higher is ridiculous. Because if you do that then bill Walton is probably a top 25 player ever.

    curry fans in that thread were angry because they couldn’t argue the facts. And the facts are that curry for while as flashy as he is, comes up a little short in both all time career traditional stats/ accolades and playoff stats/ accolades compared to the people in front of him

    like for instance cp3 is his prime was a defensive monster.
     
    #16 HardenVolumeOne, Jul 25, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
  17. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

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    Iggys FMVP was no different than Kawhis first one or Cedric Maxwells.
     
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  18. HardenVolumeOne

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    exactly maxwell winning over bird, or kawhi winning his first over Duncan didn’t change their standings on the list. Because overall bird and Duncan are well accomplished players with tons of achievements and accolades as well as having the career win share and bpm in both regular season and playoff to match
     
  19. adeelionaire

    adeelionaire Member

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    The fact that he's unofficially entered the top 30 at just 26 y.o is kinda insane
     
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  20. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    It's actually extremely biased. And while 15 players win a title every year, everyone knows who the main contributors are.

    Here's an example of how incredibly biased the methodology is. It significantly overrates the FMVP. It puts it on par with the regular season MVP. The regular season MVP is decided by 100 voters while the FMVP is decided by 11 voters who have agendas. Look at the FMVP Iggy won. Lebron got votes despite the Cavs losing. In the modern era, the FMVP has always gone to a player from the winning team yet Lebron got votes.

    And you think that's unbiased?

    Another fact is that the objective is to win, not put up flashy stats. And Curry has been the engine of multiple title teams and the greatest regular season team of all time.
     
    #20 wekko368, Jul 25, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2021
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