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Where does Francis fit?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by rofflesaurus, Oct 15, 2007.

  1. Dreamshake

    Dreamshake Member

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    Exactly. Its like these people didn't watch the Rox actually play last year. Alston is a TERRIBLE defender. I remember one game against the Pacers, Rafer was just getting absolutely abused on the P n R. And his rotations were abhorrent. His D single handidly kept the Pacers in that game. WTF are some of you talking about. Seriously, where were you rafer rafs last year. Seriously you think Rafer is going to have a coming out. Last night was a bit of a preview as to what Rafer offers us.
     
  2. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Exactly, it's like Daryl Morey, Jeff Van Gundy, Rick Adelman, and Jonathan Feigan didn't watch the Rockets actualy play last year, since they have all praised Rafer has a good defender. None of them realized how much Rafer sucked.

    It's like the scoreboard operators didn't watch the Rockets play last year, either and forgot that the other team was supposed to score more points per possession, not less, when Rafer is on the court.

    It's totally mindblowing!!!
     
  3. rofflesaurus

    rofflesaurus Member

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    i'm not saying rafer is a great defender i'm saying he's no worse than Francis is. James is our best perimeter defender by far.
     
  4. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Agreed. SF has never played good defense. If he earns court time, it will be mainly because of his contributions on the other end. One thing SF does much better than either MJ or Rafer is clear the boards, which for PGs is only a small part of playing defense.
     
  5. jogo

    jogo Member

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    This is a good point.

    Intersting article on attempts to rate individual defense here: http://www.82games.com/nichols2.htm

    I'm not saying this article is gospel, but here is its basic point:

    The new average for DCS is 0. Positive scores denote good defenders and negative scores mean bad defenders.

    * Scores of 40+: Excellent defender
    * 20 to 40: Very good defender
    * 0 to 20: Above average
    * -20 to 0: Below average
    * -40 to -20: Poor defender
    * -40 and below: Terrible defender

    DCS
    ming,yao hou C -2.1 98 11.9 50.1 7 98.2%
    wells,bonzi hou SG/SF -1.3 98 9.2 49.9 8 97.9%
    battier,shane hou SG/SF -3.7 102 13.4 44.6 12 96.7%
    hayes,chuck hou PF -9.1 98 18.7 44.3 13 96.4%
    mcgrady,tracy hou SG/SF +0.7 100 12.2 44.1 14 96.0%
    alston,rafer hou PG -4.2 102 15.8 42.1 16 95.4%
    mutombo,dikembe hou C -3.6 96 18.4 26.6 41 87.8%
    snyder,kirk hou SG/SF +4.4 102 13.9 -4.6 185 44.1%
    howard,juwan hou PF +8.2 103 16.8 -11.9 223 32.5%
    head,luther hou SG/SF +7.3 102 15.8 -13.8 237 28.3%

    Part of Rafer's high defensive rating is from JVG's system. However, part of our 52 win season with Tmac and Yao hurt is because of Rafer. He broke down in the playoffs because he had to play too many minutes. That's why we have better talent now, so we won't have similar problems next year.
     
  6. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    I think Rafer is seen as a good defender because he has quick enough hands to get a fair amount of steals. I'm not saying that makes him good, but I guess that is what they are looking at.

    I think Francis will be valuable coming off the bench. Last couple of years our offense stalled when Yao and Tracy were on the bench. Now we can have Steve going against a team's second unit and help keep the offensive energy up.

    I think he's learning a new system and new teammates. Signs that he's willing to do what the team wants is that he isn't dribbling out the clock, he's passing early, and he rather than just going back to what he feels comfortable doing, he's willing to go through the discomfort of learning the team's system.
     
  7. H-town_playa2k2

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    I cant wait to till the home opener. We will see how long steve rides the pine before the crowd lets RA hear it.SF3 is the best PG we got, there is no doubt about it. Its going to take time for a guy thats been avg. close to 20ppg his entire carrer, to adjust to being a 3rd or 4th option on the team. Let the Franchise get his swagger back, and hell be runnin circles around Head,Rafer,James in no time.


    Watch closely cause Wink can strike at ne moment. ;)
     
  8. Akhorahil

    Akhorahil Member

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    Eh... I don't like that stat at all. I mean according to that stat everyone on Memphis is a bad defender. That's not true. There are a lot of factors that manipulate a stat like that. Which you somewhat go into.

    Not trying to take anything away from your stance on Rafer. I too don't think he's this terrible defender that some people have concluded. I'm actually confused on why they would think he's a liability defensively.

    But I guess it's in the eye of the beholder... So far I haven't heard a single expert in the subject of Basketball say that Rafer isn't a good defender.

    It doesn't make any sense to me... It would if some would admit that they just don't like him. Why? no reason... just because they can.
     
  9. T-mac&Yao=RING

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    So you really think we can win it all with Rafer as our starting PG?
     
  10. T-mac&Yao=RING

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    I wouldn't go that far to say he sucks, I just think he shouldn't start. I think he will be a better PG coming off the bench
     
  11. Dreamshake

    Dreamshake Member

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    And yet the Rox still saw fit to go out and Draft a PG, and pick up two rehash's. LOL, dont make this any easier then it already is.


    And NONE OF that had to do with having Yao and Tmac as his running mates. Good job. TMac single handily took a bunch of scrubs to the playoffs In Orlando, and did it last year too when Yao was out.
     
  12. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Totally offbase interpretation. We'll see how the minutes play out and know what they think of Rafer's game.

    The Rockets may or may not want to replace Alston, but that doesn't have to do with Morey or Adelman hating his game. First, the team had 1 viable PG option: Rafer. Even with him sticking, they needed to add more PGs. The brought back a guy they wanted even with Rafer around last season: Mike James. Then they drafted Brooks, which from day 1 Morey called a move for the future. Steve Francis happened unexpectedly.
    TMac also single-handedly lead a bunch a scrubs to the worst record in the league. He needs teammates to supplement him.

    Interesting fact from last season:

    TMac played 2053 minutes with Rafer, the Rockets outscoured the Opposition by 469 points during this time.

    TMac played 486 minutes wthout Rafer: The Rockets were outscored by 67 points during this time.


    TMac didn't do it "single-handedly."

    But of course... don't let facts get in the way of your rant.
     
  13. AroundTheWorld

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    Fact: Rafer's floaters are a very low % shot.

    My opinion: He should be yanked every single time he attempts one of these ridiculous "teardrops".
     
  14. Dreamshake

    Dreamshake Member

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    He also self admittedly gave up on that season. Your still making this easy.

    Wow, and who was manning the point while Rafer was out? JL3? LOL. VSpan? You cant seriously be using this as the basis of your argument.



    Well, here let me give you facts.

    .380 lifetime fg%. Not just under Gundy, while he was tired from playing the season
    2 rebounds per game lifetime. Not just under Gundy while he was tired from all the playing he did
    Terrible Defender. Rewatch any game where any kind of halfway decent PG played. 10 percent of the games the rox played last year, the opposing PG reached 29 points or more.

    I guarantee that Rafer will hit less than 410 from the field, and get less then 2.2 boards per game, and play terrible D. But hey, he will be the best decision making PG on our team...one that actually doesnt make any of the decision making, nor run the offense.
     
  15. T-mac&Yao=RING

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    If hes going to be buried in the bench, than why did we sign him?
     
  16. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Whether a low % shot is neccesarily a bad shot depends on the context.

    If there's 15 seconds on the clock, sure, you should pass it off and set up the offense again to get something better. If there's 3 seconds left and a guy running at him when he's spotted up and everyone else is covered, there may not be a better option than a 40% teardrop shot. Rafer took a lot of his low % shots in the latter siuation.
     
  17. solid

    solid Member

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    I totally agree. That was my recommendation throughout last season. It amazed me that he never stopped attempting them and/or JVG didn't shut them down. Still can't figure that one out. I don't think I ever saw him make one: you have to go to the restroom and get popcorn. Who knows, maybe he made one.
     
  18. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Appreciate your input, but I am certain Adelman and Van Gundy spent more time "rewatching" games than you did. And their conclusion is entirely different.
     
  19. AroundTheWorld

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    That teardrop shot is most definitely not even a 40 % shot. Besides, aren't you arguing in circles? If Rafer is as great a PG as you seem to imply, why would the play - with him as the "floor general" - even end up where he would be there with three seconds left with the ball in his hands and no other option?
     
  20. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    For what it's worth, Alston's % on "Inside shots" (i.e. everything but jumpers) is 50%.

    Tracy McGrady' % on these shots? 52%.

    Because NBA teams play defense?

    15% of Jason Kidd's shots come with 3 second or less left on the clock, and if he's a great PG, woudln't he avoid such a situation?

    BTW, Jason Kidd's FG% with 3 seconds left on the clock is even worse than Rafer's.

    On a team basis, 11 % of the Rockets shot were taken with 3 seconds or less left on the clock. 14% of the Nets shots were taken with 3 secons or less left on the clock. 9% of the PHX Suns shots were taken with 3 seconds or less left on the clock.

    Teams play defense, and while Rafer is no Kidd or Nash, he's a competent PG, but having a competent pG doesn't mean you never have to take tough shots.
     

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