The only team that comes close to your criteria of damn good players at every position is Detroit. However, they don't have a top 3 player at ANY position. MAYBE Ben Wallace can be the 3rd C in the NBA, but Brad Miller is much likely a better player, and if Eddy Curry continues working out, he will also be up there. We have Tracy McGrady who was once considered the best SG in the league, always considered a top 3 SG, and will surely rise to the top with Yao by his side and him working out like a mofo while Kobe's in court everyday. Yao is the second best at his position. Which team boasts that kind of dominance at two positions? Even the Heat have Wade and Shaq... But Wade is not a top 3 SG and he's not a top 3 PG.... Anyone else boast two players who are easily top 3 at their position, and potentially #1 or #2 at their positions? Indiana comes close as Artest is very near dominant at his position, and same goes for Jermaine O'Neal. Guess what, they won 61 games last year.
I don't agree with your list, but I do understand your point. That said, how would you rank our 94-95 point guards of Kenny Smith + Sam Cassell (the Sam Cassell of 94-95, not last year's Cassell)? We need a floor leader who can distribute the ball, knock down jumpers and play team defense. We don't need a superstar PG.
Saying Yao is top 3 in his position in today's NBA doesn't say much, overall is he a top 20 player? Maybe, maybe not. He's for sure the 3rd best center in the league, arguably the 2nd best, that doesn't mean we should brag about it so much.
hey, i don't care if they fight over the ball. what are we gonna say, "damn Tracy just made another shot". its better that Yao fight with one guy who's pretty much a solidified star than 2 guys who think they're stars. damn I went there, huh...
Well OMR is right. There are quite a few teams with backup pgs that are better than any of our 3 headed monster. But that doesn't mean the rox pg committee can't get the job done or that opposing pgs are going to kill us any more than they have in the past.
The system defines the player's value at least half of the time. JVG's system calls for the PG to play conservatively and be strong on D. That's what we have. Steve or any other All-Star point other than maybe Kidd (or Andre Miller) would be a bad fit for this system. It's still very likely that the Rockets are aware that a better option will come around in the next two or three seasons. Yao and TMac both have at least 7 years in their prime ahead of them. Managment can be patient and wait for the right deal to come around. Evan
Yeah we should brag about it. Who can guard him at his position? He's #2 so shaq could, but who else? don't say that having the 2nd best center who is unstoppable 1v1 doesn't mean anything because it does. Does he have to guard Kobe? How about Ray Allen? Vince Carter? Does he have to guard Baron Davis? what about Kirelenko? OR bibby? Yeah he might have to guard Garnett sometimes but can he still hold his own? What about Duncan? Who else could guard Garnett and Duncan? Shaq? and who else? He commands double teams. ENough said.
oh an post your top 20 players for me please so i can list the other top20 players who he has to guard and makes him nothing special.
I would take Sura equal with any of the ones you listed 11-30 in fact at that point you could put them in any order you wanted except for Kirk Hinrich and Brent Barry who would definately be top 12. How many of those point guards had 3 back to back to back triple doubles last season? (ok th elast one Sura had was disallowed) How many of those guys had better numbers than Sura over the last 27 games? (after he went to Atlanta) Is there really that many on your list who can do better at what Sura will be asked to do in Van Gundy's system? How many on your list had more rebounds per minute played than Sura. Or a higher assist to turnover ratio. I don't think Sura is terrible, and that's what your post implies. Ward- now that's different, I wouldn't mind having any of those you listed in place of Ward. Lue- he definately goes between 17- 27 Don't think Sura is a total bust. He hasn't shown consistancy but he can ball.
You know I think our PG position is immensly stronger than Maloney, Davis and Threat or whatever our eventuall situation was when we last lost in the WCF. The Bulls won with guys like Kerr, Paxon, Harper, and Armstrong in the 1 spot, and Cartwright or Longley in the 5 spot. Also remember Stoudamire's claim no team with Avery J as their starting 1 could win a title? Guess how right he was. The key thing for Lue, Ward and Sura is to fulfill roles (decent defense) and keep opponents honest (knock down open shots). I would have preffered some other guys mixed in the triumphant instead of either Sura or Ward--Barry, Damon Jones or Mike James--but nor do I think our current group is a team killer. Assuming the Rockets get Mutumbo they are solid all over and very deep. I think when you consider JH and MT together that makes us better than average at the 4 spot--somthing we have not had since Barkley left. BTW yes Yao is a top 20 player. By my count he is somewhere between the 8th and 14th best player already. I only have him for sure behind TD, KG, Shaq, Kobe, Tmac, JO, and Dirk in terms of overall impact (scoring, rebouding, blocks, efficiency, impact on the game). He could surpace Dirk and JO next year. Yao is somewhere with the next group with Kidd, AI, Marbury, Pierce, Cwebb, and Ben Wallace though their placement is difficult to debate. I think anyone who thinks probably other top 30 players of Peja, Carter, AK47, Nash, Brad Miller, Stoudmaire, Francis, Davis, Bibby, Lebron, Brand, Zach, Artest, Cassell, Sheed, Rip, or Melo are equal to Yao as a player are way underestimating the offensive & defensive attention Yao demands and his overall efficiency. I would say Lebron, AK, Melo, and Stoud have maybe a chance to surpace him, primarily, Lebron of this group, but I doubt it. So without a doubt he Rockets have two of the 15 best--which no other team can probably claim, the Rockets maybe have two of the 10 best. You could make a case Sac has four top 30 players and Detriot has 3. Yet SA probably has only 1 in the top 30 and Minny only 1 of the top 20, yet they go in as co-favs for the title.
We'll have the worst starting point guard in the league, but our PG by commitee will work out for us because none of them have a low B-Ball IQ. You're not going to see our PGs turn the ball over a bunch, you're not going to see our PGs slack on defense, and you're not going to see them take stupid shots (maybe Sura). Between those three, our PG situation is not a liability, it's not an asset either, but it's not a handicap.
Small nitpik, but there is no doubt in my mind Ben Wallace is a better player than Brad Miller, at least in terms of the impact of their total presence on the court. In term of center impact, 1) Shaq, 2) Yao and 3) Wallace--I don't even object too much if someone argues Wallace was more a force than Yao through last year. Though I think next year it will be obvious Yao is #2 and maybe not far from Shaq unless Shaq trains like an animal for a final push.
<p>Let's calm down for a second. The only thing the one's going to be asked to do in Houston is take care of the ball, make sure it gets to Yao and T-Mac safely, and maybe hit the occaisonal open J. The last thing the team needs is a ball-dominating guard who needs touches.</p> <p>Ward ins't spectacular, but he's a safe pair of hands who knows what Van Gundy wants. That's good enough.</p><p> As it stands, it's probably a safe bet that two Rockets are going to be starting for the West in the all-star game, and not without good reason. Houston's success is going to rest on their performance, not on the fifth option on offense.</p>
Charlie Ward blows.. I am deeply disappointed he is a Rocket. Let's see what he can do, but I have very low expectations. Sura on the other hand is a good player- better than average. Pat Riley wanted him a few years ago at Miami. I am OK with Sura. Mobely was better than Sura will be.
And? He's not averaging 25 and 10, he's averagin under 20 and under 10, but those numbers are still 2-3 in center rankings because the centers in today's NBA suck. He's not unstoppable, Shaq is unstoppable, and that's where that unstoppable center list begins and ends. Yao does make a difference but saying he's the 2nd best center in the league is kind of misleading because there are a handful of players that you could make a case for being better post players than him. He's been outplayed by scrub centers too many times to say he's unstoppable one on one.
ok he's not unstoppable. but you can't fault him for the league having a scarce (read: none) amount of quality Centers. That's what makes him special. Why would people be gushing over him if there were 10-20 other 7'5 guys out there with the touch and understanding yao has? You can list the other handful of post players better than him. Wait I'll list it: Shaq Duncan KG (maybe? i dont know, haven't seen him enough with his back to the hoop to make a comment about it) JO? i dont know Webber? Brand? R Wallace? First 3 i listed are MVPs or former MVPs or multi-MVP winners. As we both said, there's only one Center in that group; the rest are Powerforwards. I'm assuming when you mean post players you mean big guys, so im not anticipating a list of like Kobe or someone who is a better post player against other SGs or something the like. The rest are pretty much tossups. yes i've been on a tear lately in the amount of times i've posted hehe.
Wow, you must have sick expectations for the "2nd best center in the NBA". 25/10 is stat that Duncan doesn't even put up, despite being the best player in the NBA. Heck, Hakeem was never simply the "2nd best" when he put up those stats for the Rockets. As for a rank of all big post man, who would you have over Yao after Shaq, Garnett, and Duncan? J. O'Neal shoots a lowly 40% as a C/PF. Dirk and Miller are perimeter players. Do you consider Brand or Rasheed Wallace better?
Jermain O'Neal yes, Webber when healthy produces more but I'd pass on him because he's hardly ever healthy, I'll pass on Brand, and would pass on Rasheed to but it would be pretty hard, since he's my favorite player. My big guys list... Duncan Garnett Shaq O'Neal Ben Wallace Yao Ming The thing with Yao is that he's one slot behing those other guys, but he's not that close to them, because those other guys almost always know they're better and usually outperform their opponents while Yao has yet to get that. Too many times he lets the Jerome James, Big Z's, and Divac's of the NBA outplay him, those other guys destroy those types everytime they meet.
Well, forget the 25/10, he's still under 20 and 10. O'Neal shoots 44% but he's still better. Not Brand, I would say Rasheed is but then again he's my favorite player, but even those two guys won't let scrubs beat them. That knocks Yao down a few pegs until he accepts how much better he is than most players and embarrasses them every night.
