To continue with my analogy, if you ask an anorexic person what their struggle is, I suspect that they would say (other than to be left alone) that they would want help losing weight and that you'd support their weight loss. But that's not really what's best for them is it? How is that any different than a person with gender dysphoria? Isn't an anorexic person "wired" to believe that they need to lose weight? how are they different? Aren't they both believing that their biological bodies are something that they shouldn't be? I don't think that's necessarily true. I suspect that, for many anorexic people, the cause of their disorder is not associated with trauma.
The problem is that you haven't asked an anorexic person and a transgender person so you are trying to debate two hypotheticals. You don't know what each one would say. That's why you can't make a comparison. It's too speculative of an argument. By wired i mean genetically. There is growing evidence that transgenderism has a genetic basis. That is gender isn't just about our physical parts in our bodies, but it's in our brains as well. And it's possible to have the physical parts of one sex but your brain develops into the other - a process that can happen in the womb for unknown reasons. In other words, people don't decide to become transgender. With anorexia - it's something that entirely develops from one's experiences (trauma). It's a learned behavior and therefore can be changed. This is not the case with being transgender. Anorexia is strongly associated with trauma. Is it 100%? I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was 100%.
Links, please? I suspect there's gonna be (as there usually is in such debates) science that supports both sides of a discussion and it's a question of which science we choose to believe. I did a quick google search and the first study I found states that a majority of anorexics and bulimics that were studied had encountered a trauma. That being said, the majority was 67% of anorexics and 76& of bulimics. Although this is only one study (of 72 patients) if we were to use it as a baseline... yes, a majority have encountered trauma; but still, many have not. Do you think any people have encountered gender dysphoria as a result of trauma? By your statements, I would expect you to say 'no' because you say that it's "hard wired" which means it's not the result of environmental influence. (?)
Very little record keeping and studies have been done on this topic in the past. What happened is that both sides grabbed hold of the little bit or research and polling that supports their position. For example, early in the debate conservatives grabbed onto the little bit of polling to show how few transexuals there are..... Then trans-advocates grabbed onto a VERY limited and extremely flawed study that showed that transgendered people had the highest suicide rates or were most likely to be victims of violence of a hate crime (we know these both are not accurate). Now some conservatives are claiming that the LGBTQ+ " agenda" is creating nonbinary and trans people - when we don't know that.... all we know is that younger people identify as nonbinary/transgendered...... we cannot jump on a definite reason why. We are in the infancy with all of this - and there are a lot of assumptions both sides are making that may prove to be false.
Concerning the intersection between being trans-gendered and genetics - we don't know is the most honest answer. There are a few books out there, and a very small study (30 self selected people) that make the claim that their is a genetic linked but that is dubious at this point.
The research i still in its infancy but I do not believe there is any study that shows it is not linked. I haven't done a search in a while so don't have links but I am sure you can find out what the latest is very quickly if it interests you. The thing about trauma is that it isn't always obvious you have suffered it. One way of coping with trauma is to forget it completely. But the damage it does is still there. Many people don't recognized what they suffered is trauma. And for others, the trauma happened before they were developed enough to remember it. You could have experienced trauma at the age of 2 years old for instance - and then you would show up in the stats of not having trauma even though you did. Is it possible that transgenderism is a result of trauma? Here's the thing, if that were the case, at least some people who are transgender would report the trauma they experienced that they could correlate to the gender dysmorphia. But that doesn't seem to be the case. And there are many cases where twins separated close to birth both end up transgender at a far too high or a rate to explain via randomness. There are also differences in the brain in terms of receptors for testosterone in people who are transgender. Is it possible that trauma or some other environmental mechanism plays a role? Sure, but to date none have been identified. More research is needed, but the genetic link is there.
From what I've been told, the suppression of feelings is what leads transgender people to their dark place. External forces - religion, family, public vitriol - impose that pressure and psychological toll. It's also difficult to imagine that people with gender dysphoria are mentally ill when there aren't negative secondary manifestations from being transgender. An anorexic person starves themselves which leads to the body physically shutting down. I don't see what direct negative physical or mental effects supposedly occur when a person transitions when the data we have suggests they lead happier and healthier lives afterward. This betrays a lack of nuance in the debate. Not everyone who falls on "pro" or "live and let live" side of this issue is a hardcore disciple of intersectionality who screams "TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN" online. I don't pretend that trans women are biological women. They just aren't and that's fine. They're still valuable human beings with valuable lives. As @Nook has said, this what everyone is trying to figure out. The extremes on either side are amplifying this issue (or just posting through it based on some "contributions" in this thread) and drowning out those of us who: 1. don't believe that transgender people should be forced into silence and/or prevented from transitioning and 2. deserve to be treated with respect and dignity in public life.
This is where the analogy falls apart, because the treatment options for anorexia and gender dysphoria are different. Like I said in my hypothetical, if we had a treatment on offer that rendered the negative effects of anorexia moot, then who could possibly argue on moral grounds that we should deny people the opportunity to alleviate their suffering? Imagine a world where we had such an ability. Now imagine a world where people scorn, chastise, and ridicule those who choose that therapy (and those who support them). A world where people spend far too much of their waking hours reminding those people they're "still anorexic". You don't have to imagine hard, because that's the world a lot of trans people live in.
You think everybody that wants to transition and take hormone replacement therapy (which is really really bad for you btw, and in cases of estrogen life threatening blood clots, testosterone—heart attacks dyslipidemia, many cancers) is doing it because they were born that way? People In India and other places yes but laughable to claim that that’s the case here
I’m sorry but that really isn’t sufficient research on the topic. It is speculation…. Just like almost everything else on this topic. The reason it bothers me is that people then take it and run with it…. and it may or may not be accurate. This is an issue where both sides are talking in absolutes when the data isn’t there. I have heard opponents of trans rights claim increased testosterone in transgendered men - first it’s not true, it was based on a 5 person (yes 5 people) study and self reporting…. I also have heard proponents of trans rights justify calling a trans woman a female or a woman because they have the highest suicide rates and most likely to be a victim of a hate crime - neither is accurate based on the numbers we have - but another 15 year old self reporting study was cited. The amount of misinformation and absolute bullshit being passed of as unquestioned facts by both sides is dangerous.
There is very little public discussion about how harmful these treatments are. The increase is cancer rates, blood clots, bones breaking down - etc.
Are there more trans people in Thailand? (male to female?) Somehow thinking of the Hangover movies lol And what could be the cause, if so? A lot of Thai men kind of look effeminate to begin with - could it be low testosterone? Sorry if these are politically incorrect questions. Just some randlm thoughts, haven't googled.
Yeah there's a ton of unhealthy taboos around this subject. The thing that fascinates me is how the rates of trans identity differ based on sex, age, race, state, country, etc. There are clearly some socioeconomic aspects at play.
I don't think you can dismiss all the research as speculation. Some of this research is in major medical periodicals that would never publish a study based on 5 people. And transgender youth do have higher suicide rates - I didn't even think this is something that was debated anymore. There's a lot of research posted on that page and again, so again, I don't think you can dismiss all of it en masse - it feels a bit like hand waving to be honest. I guess we can just agree to disagree.
Go through the studies - I have. The studies you posted, which I have read before all had very small groups. The twins for example consisted of 35… another one posted had 18… another, 24…. Another 8, 9…11…. Further the conclusions reached in the studies were inconsistent, some found correlations for transgendered men but not women… some of the studies also contradict other studies… there is no general agreement that transgenderism is genetic - all there is at this point is speculation… we may ultimately find a genetic factor, but we haven’t yet and to claim that we have at this point is false - and I am not picking on you as there is a lot of false information out there. Also, transgendered teenagers do not have the highest suicide rate as has been cited- it isn’t accurate. The claim isn’t based on actual suicide numbers, it is based on a SELF reporting study. Do transgendered people have a higher rate of suicide than cisgendered? Yes, that is true - but that isn’t what is usually claimed or cited. Black children have the fastest growing rate of suicide among adolescents and percentage wise the highest rate compared to the size of their population.
Can you cite this? Also why would your data be accurate? Does it account for a larger portion of the transgender community detached from family and living in enclaves and in sex trafficking? How can report accurately about rates for a group of people like this who live underground mostly?
I keep seeing the right saying people should use the bathroom which matches their genitals. They don't really mean that though. If a F to M trans person, who has a vagina AND a full beard, tried to walk into a Ladies restroom they would flip their lid. No one understands nuance. They don't realize this is not a "one size fits all" subject. They especially don't understand that someone they don't know who transitions has absolutely no impact on their lives. I think it was @Nook who said this, but we are a patriarchal society. The men transitioning to women cannot escape this. They cannot escape if that effected them negatively. The ones who mansplain, are misogynistic, etc. They transition too. They are also usually more vocal. There are the ones that cis-women have a problem with. Not because they are trans, but because they were ******* guys who transitioned and remained assholes.
