1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Where do you draw the line - transgender

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by droxford, Feb 7, 2023.

?

We all draw the line some where. Where do you draw the line?

  1. Society should refer to transgenders using their preferred pronouns

    21 vote(s)
    26.6%
  2. Definitions ("man", "woman", "gender", & "sex") should be changed/eliminated due to transgenders

    2 vote(s)
    2.5%
  3. It should be permissible for transgenders to share restroom/locker room with their identified gender

    15 vote(s)
    19.0%
  4. Transgenders should be able to participate in athletic & other competitions based on their identity

    6 vote(s)
    7.6%
  5. Transgenders should qualify for loans, grants, scholarships, & admissions based on their identity

    8 vote(s)
    10.1%
  6. Gender-specific organizations should be required to accept transgendrs based on their gender idntity

    8 vote(s)
    10.1%
  7. Historical medical records & birth certificats should be changed to only show transgenders' indntity

    4 vote(s)
    5.1%
  8. Transgenders <16 yrs should be able to hve sex-reassignmnt surgery/pubrty blockrs w/o parent consent

    1 vote(s)
    1.3%
  9. The U.S. government should provide finances for sex-reassigned surgeries and puberty-blocking drugs

    5 vote(s)
    6.3%
  10. None of the above

    56 vote(s)
    70.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,181
    Likes Received:
    20,334
    If only conservatives would stop making a huge big deal out of something that doesn't affect them.
     
    Xopher and fchowd0311 like this.
  2. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,181
    Likes Received:
    20,334
    I've heard this argument before but to me it makes no sense. Who gets to decide what is the right way for a woman to dress? If a woman dressed a certain way, other women don't find patronizing. But if a transgender man does it, it's patronizing because it doesn't fit the right mold?

    It may be understandable that they go out of their way to be what they see as feminine to compensate. Most of the transgender women out there do a lot of work to make themselves appear female - probably for good reason given the amount of bullying they face if they don't pass for a woman.

    Think of all the bathroom stuff. Do you think most people even realize that a transgender man might be in the bathroom with them at all? No! Because that's part of the whole point, is for people to think of them as women so that they don't face any issues or harassment. It's part of why bathroom bills are so stupid, because they are unenforceable unless you know for a fact that someone is transgender.

    No one gets to claim what the definition of masculinity or femininity is. If someone feels patronized by the way another person dresses or looks, then it's that person who has some serious issues.
     
    Nook likes this.
  3. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    59,729
    Likes Received:
    132,082
    I don't know that I agree with you on this point - as most of the transgendered people I know do draw the same distinction - but I will admit that I also know some that do not think there is a distinction between sex and gender.

    If the majority of trans-activists don't believe there is a distinction and it is relevant - then yes, I believe they are wrong.

    "Ya sorry man but when you say a trans person is entitled because they want to belong to a sports competition that isn't some special deviated one for a small group of people (a dedicated trans league) then you are biting into right wing bigotry."

    This is where I got the bigotry point from, which in fairness you did not call me a bigot.

    Also, I never said that trans people should not be allowed to compete in sports competitions. What I have said is that there is an inherent advantage for transwomen when competing against females and as such they should have a separate category at the higher competitive levels.
     
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    59,729
    Likes Received:
    132,082
    No, that isn't why some females find it patronizing, they find it patronizing because there are some transgendered women that believe that is what makes one a woman, and it is a narrative that is pushed by the patriarchy. From the perspective of some females, it is a VERY small part of womanhood and it is also the part that is pushed by the patriarchy.

    That is the disconnect - to a lot of men and the patriarchy feminine and female are synonymous and that is why some females are critical of transwomen that focus so much on the physical elements, but retain the same attitudes and experiences that someone born a male would have in the patriarchy.

    I don't know many females that have an issue with transwomen using a woman's restroom. I am sure there are some, but it isn't an issue I hear much. Most of those complaining about it have been men or very religious.

    Society is also starting to indirectly deal with this by having gender neutral "family" restrooms.

    You don't get it - they are not defining masculinity or femininity - they are saying that masculinity and femininity do not define whether someone is male or female.

    There are certainly people that don't like some of the virtues of modern masculinity or femininity - but that is a different issue really.
     
  5. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    18,099
    Likes Received:
    8,539
    I hear you. As someone who has almost no interest in this topic, I am increasing growing tired of hearing about it, regardless of who is right or wrong. I feel like the adult who is listening to two children bicker about who is right and wrong.
     
    AroundTheWorld and fchowd0311 like this.
  6. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,181
    Likes Received:
    20,334
    I get it's so few people so why care? But I know people who are transgender and my friend's son is transgender - so this has a lot of impact on lives of people I care about. For me it's not a political issue.
     
    Nook likes this.
  7. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,280
    Question (I really don't know): the way you wrote it, does that mean the person is a biological male or a biological female (before becoming transgender)
     
  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    That's the thing. The targeted concentration of trans people being the topic of the year basically just causes more bullying and harassment on trans people causing them liberals and leftists to start sincerely caring about the issue.
     
  9. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,181
    Likes Received:
    20,334
    f to m
     
    AroundTheWorld likes this.
  10. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    18,099
    Likes Received:
    8,539
    Its less about the sympathy and more about the politics. Politicians are weaponizing topics to divide people and its becoming more and more extreme.

    I hear very little about increasing support on the mental health side and mostly about forcing beliefs onto people who are not ready to receive them. Respect should be given to all peoples thoughts and opinions. Unfortunately the world is full of assholes on all spectrums.

    That said, I truly appreciate the transgender movement attributing to the increased family restrooms. This is something society should have embraced a long time ago.
     
  11. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,280
    I have another question, what is the percentage distribution between m to f versus f to m? Is it equal? Looking at media, m to f seems more common?
     
  12. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,181
    Likes Received:
    20,334
    The right uses it as a political issue as it works to motivate their voters to the poll. That's all it is.

    No one is trying to force people to be transgender or whatever. What they do want is to let transgender people have the rights that others do, and live in a bully free world. The whole bathroom issue wasn't an issue 20 years ago because transgender people just used the bathroom they were comfortable using. It only became an issue when the right needed to find a wedge issue.
     
  13. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,181
    Likes Received:
    20,334
    genetically? I don't know. I don't think there are many good studies on it yet. It's hard to do a study as a lot of people who are transgender stay quiet because of the fear associated with coming out.
     
  14. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,280
    Okay, googled it:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5227939/#:~:text=Transgender individuals made up 0.53% (95% confidence interval [,CI = 0.06, 0.13).

    Transgender individuals made up 0.53% (95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.46, 0.61) of the population, with a larger proportion of individuals identifying as male-to-female (0.28% of the population; 95% CI = 0.23, 0.33) than female-to-male (0.16%; 95% CI = 0.12, 0.21) or gender nonconforming (0.08%; 95% CI = 0.06, 0.13).

    What is "gender nonconforming"? I guess I could google it again.

    I know a female healthcare reporter who put "she/they" on her LinkedIn profile. Confused me.

    Edit: How do the 0.5 % from the NIH match with the 5 % of young people under 30 reported in this article? https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...s-different-from-their-sex-assigned-at-birth/

    This is all very confusing.
     
    Space Ghost likes this.
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    Read the methodology for each study/survey?

    That's what I would do if that was a question I was seeking? Do the work yourself.
     
  16. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,280
    that sounds very fascist
     
  17. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    Well that is a statement... Now explain it.

    We can first agree on a definition of fascism. Do you want to engage?
     
  18. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,280
    No, that would be fascist.
     
  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    55,682
    Likes Received:
    43,473
    That is a statement certainly. Now explain how you got to that position.

    We can first start by defining fascism?
     
  20. AroundTheWorld

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2000
    Messages:
    83,288
    Likes Received:
    62,280
    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page