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Where do you draw the line - transgender

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by droxford, Feb 7, 2023.

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We all draw the line some where. Where do you draw the line?

  1. Society should refer to transgenders using their preferred pronouns

    21 vote(s)
    26.6%
  2. Definitions ("man", "woman", "gender", & "sex") should be changed/eliminated due to transgenders

    2 vote(s)
    2.5%
  3. It should be permissible for transgenders to share restroom/locker room with their identified gender

    15 vote(s)
    19.0%
  4. Transgenders should be able to participate in athletic & other competitions based on their identity

    6 vote(s)
    7.6%
  5. Transgenders should qualify for loans, grants, scholarships, & admissions based on their identity

    8 vote(s)
    10.1%
  6. Gender-specific organizations should be required to accept transgendrs based on their gender idntity

    8 vote(s)
    10.1%
  7. Historical medical records & birth certificats should be changed to only show transgenders' indntity

    4 vote(s)
    5.1%
  8. Transgenders <16 yrs should be able to hve sex-reassignmnt surgery/pubrty blockrs w/o parent consent

    1 vote(s)
    1.3%
  9. The U.S. government should provide finances for sex-reassigned surgeries and puberty-blocking drugs

    5 vote(s)
    6.3%
  10. None of the above

    56 vote(s)
    70.9%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    By price fixing cartels for rent pricing, you actually mean landlords using data to determine a market rate for rent, right?
     
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  3. AroundTheWorld

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  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Agreed. I know that a certain segment of people seem to find any change offensive, and I can understand having questions or even having some concerns - but I don’t understand the need to dehumanize people that just want acceptance and not harm.
     
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  5. Nook

    Nook Member

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    By landlords using data to determine market rate for rent, you mean price fixing cartels, right?
     
  6. mtbrays

    mtbrays Member
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    This is one of the biggest arguments that supports the validity of gender dysphoria. It must be incredibly difficult to come out as transgender when you know it will cost you friendships, family relationships and societal scorn from people like Commodore who have said that they'd call you a "freak" to your face if asked what they thought of you. To know the social cost and still go forward with coming out speaks to the depth of their conviction. My family member who recently came out as transgender is still not out to all of our family (they live in another country so they have some distance) because of the potential pushback.

    It reminds me of a story my mom told me when I was young about why she was accepting of homosexuals when the very notion of gay marriage was laughable: she worked with a gay man during the height of the AIDS epidemic and, during conversation, he told her "I don't know why anyone would think that I'm choosing this. It's who I am." Like a lot of people her age she doesn't really understand trans issues (and especially doesn't get nonbinary identification) but she doesn't think that these people are mentally ill and/or somehow sexually deviant. There's no kink strong enough to "choose" the social ill will that comes with being an out transgendered person.
     
    #306 mtbrays, Mar 25, 2023
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2023
    B-Bob, Nook and AroundTheWorld like this.
  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The Gold medal winner in 2016 is inter-sexed and her doctor decided to assigned her female at birth. As a result she has naturally higher testosterone levels than other women.
    The second and third place finishers in 2016 have hyperandronism that results in them having very high levels of testosterone.
    Under the new rules all three would be required to lower testosterone levels to compete against other women.
    The 2nd and third place finishers are upset and don’t want to lower their testosterone levels. It gets complicated because hyperandronism is viewed and bad for a woman’s health and is treated by…. Lowering testosterone which increases lifespans and quality of life… yet these two athletes have chosen NOT to do that. One reasonable conclusion is they all know it gives them a massive advantage in their sport, another conclusion would be they are comfortable being who they are - but it is still a disorder.
    I don’t think the situation with any of these three is the same as a transsexual competitor - although the governing bodies are claiming it’s all based on testosterone levels.
     
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  8. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    I'm talking about landlords using YieldStar to determine what rent to charge. This is not price fixing, nor is it a cartel, so no.
     
  9. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Maybe, maybe not.

    There is a lot of litigation ongoing over it right now. RealPage has been sued numerous times.
     
  10. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Better to call a bigot what he or she is, then.
    A bigot.
     
  11. AroundTheWorld

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  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    So the claim then that these are MALE isn’t correct by the definitions they have been put forward in this very thread. They were not born men nor have they transitioned.

    This goes again to a point that I’ve brought up several times that there are born women who have naturally higher testosterone levels than many men. My understanding is that many sports leagues require them to take drugs to suppress those levels of hormones. So why then should a transitioned female who is also taking drugs to suppress natural testosterone not also be allowed to compete..
     
  13. Nook

    Nook Member

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    No, they are not males. Two of the three women have a disorder that produces excessive testosterone and is readily treatable but they don’t treat it. The third is born intersexual and was assigned as a woman by the doctor at birth.
    There are a lot of inaccuracies in this thread and around the transgender issue in general from all sides.
     
  14. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Why? Because they have the frames and organs of males. The advantages are in many ways already established.

    We can attempt to limit it by looking at hormone levels but there is already an advantage.
     
    tinman likes this.
  15. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    Lol cosplaying
    That’s what it really breh
    You can cosplay as Superman but when you jump off that building you ain’t gonna fly breh
     
  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    By organs do you mean sex organs? Isn’t the advantage of sex organs that they produce testosterone yet if a born women can produce as much or more testosterone than a born man where is the difference? In regards to frame I’ve met female competitive swimmers and they already have large frames with significant wing span. The advantage of a frame and how much transitioning affects that I don’t think is fully clear. As has been noted Lia Thomas’ times did decrease when transitioning so why didn’t the frame she had as a male just continue that advantage? And again why were several cos women able to beat her in since cases substantially?
    You’ve rightfully noted they we don’t have as much information and more study is needed in this issues. Wouldn’t you agree then that more study is needed to see what advantages remains post transition? So far the evidence presented of Lia Thomas and the few others doesn’t seem overwhelming.
     
  17. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    I will keep on going back to this until more people realize it:

    Why is this topic disproportionately the center of American political discourse given it's relative infrequent effect on a very small amount of people?
     
  18. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Because it's not only the primary identity of a major political party (GOP pretty much just talks social issues and very little policy now), but just like Fox News, their media arm, they've realized that it's a super efficient strategy. Takes so little work, research, nuance to create fundraising / anger-raising opportunities. Very plug and play, with scripts and twitter posts that nearly write themselves. (Chat GPTrans?)
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  19. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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  20. LosPollosHermanos

    Supporting Member

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    It’s discriminatory towards women in certain ways, your argument could be akin to discrimination of police officers against people of color. The vast majority are fine but incidents do take place. The only reason you are selective is because one fits into your smoothie/cocktail of schema

    pretty soon women not wanting to have sex with trans individuals will be seen as bigotry, there have already been cases
     

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