I'm not sure why that matters. Don't you think it's common courtesy to not talk about someone behind their back in a way that you wouldn't right in front of them?
It sounded like you were saying that "gender identity" is an unnecessary concept because gender/sex is already well understood. Can you explain how gender dysphoria arises in young children any more than you can explain how a non-heteresexual orientation arises in young children? If the answer is no, then I think gender/sex is in fact not readily understood and "gender identity" is a useful concept for trying to explain the variation we observe (across cultures) in how humans develop and behave.
again, conflating sexual orientation and gender is not helpful. and I did not say there was no such thing as gender identity. rather, I'm saying it is not the same thing as gender. the issue we have as a society in trying to talk about these concepts is that certain actors (some people) want to blur the lines between them. clearly gender dysphoria exists. what one does about it is the question, and whether, in the case of children, the parents should be involved. if you're an adult and want to switch (outward) gender (your chromosomes don't change), that's a choice your can make, and I will happily refer to you by your new gender appropriate pronouns.
Then we're agreed there. Gender and sex, at least as understood over the last 50 some years, is also not the same. I'm using "gender identity" to refer to something much more specific than "gender". Gender has to do with how a person interacts externally in the world. Gender identity is something internal to the person, but different from sex chromosomes. OK.
Like I said, I am absolutely respecting people's gender identity, even if I myself disagree with it being fundamental to who we are. I would never talk about this stuff unless I was having a philosophical conversation about it, like we are doing right now. People can have conversations and still be respectful, as I am respectful of you considering it fundamental to who you are. Is that fair?
THank you for giving a straightforward answer. This goes to the heart of the issue. If you don't believe that people can change then you won't accept them for who they believe they are. If we consider mutual respect to be that we at least recognize what someone chooses to identify as then as they would respect what we consider our identity then not recognizing that there mutual respect is impossible. I know if someone inisted that I wasn't what I truly felt to be I would find that hurtful. Wouldn't you? As far as this issue about people identifying as being cats this is the same type of slippery slope arguments that we heard regarding gay marriage, "what if someone wants to marry their cat?'.. We don't see a rash of people marrying their cats nor would accepting transgender lead to a rash of people identifying as cats. To take it on head on though if someone really wanted to identify as a cat it largely wouldn't affect me. That said they would find it hard to function in society as they couldnt' work, play sports, or socialize with humans. As a human even if I accepted them as a cat I would be under no obligation to feed them or care for them than I do any other stray. The same doesn't go for a transgender human. A transgender human can still work, play sports and otherwise function like any other human.
Sorry to disapoint you but I've never considered my position in Clutchfans to live up to expectations of other posters. Would it be better if I were to call you a "Fat loser neckbeard whose parents don't love you" or that "everyone who doesn't agree with me is evil and dangerous"? We're having a debate and I've stated as clearly as I can why my position is what it is. Yes it is harsh but I don't think it does much to just sugar coat our positions when the differences are so stark. If you find it too harsh you are under no obligation to participate.
Actually, the only people who are acting offended are you and a few others who cannot accept that other people do not agree with them. Those who do not agree with the woke transgender agenda have been calm and polite. The ones doing the name-calling are you, and a few others.
Thanks I appreciate it. As I said in my post above there are some stark differences and through debate I'm trying to get to the heart of it. That's why I asked the question. If you don't believe that someone's identity exists then there isn't much room for common ground or mutual respect. It's like in the Israeli Palestinian debates there are those who claim the Palestinians don't really exist as a people and also those who claim Israel shouldn't exist. There isn't really much possiblity for common ground as you're denying the unique identity of each group as a people.
We will have to agree to disagree…. She drastically improved her rankings after switching to the women’s side. 500 free style Male - 65th Female - #1 (including beating the female silver metalist) 200 free style Male - 554th Female - 5th That’s a massive difference. I don’t know where the idea that Thomas shattering the all time womens record would be the measure. He went from being a solid male swimmer to winning the NCAA Championship in the 500 free style, including beating an Olympic Silver medalist. She also now intends to compete for the Olympics… something that never would have happened as a male. I am fine with someone believing that the social consequences are more important than the competitive nature of female sports… but if that’s the case, then let’s at least admit it. I don’t think the idea that Thomas wasn’t greatly helped athletically transitioning is just objectively false. Is that why she transitioned? Of course not, but it is still a situation where biological females that compete at the highest level are potentially being hurt.
I don’t know why, but I don’t believe her. I will say though, that I don’t believe as biological males that we have the right to tell women what is and isn’t okay for their locker rooms. Men in society are predators statistically, so if they have concerns having someone with a penis in their locker-rooms, then I understand that.
You have gone way down the rabbit hole and this is the biggest load of **** I have heard before. This isn’t common at all and just because someone transgendered has done this, doesn’t mean all or even 1% of transgendered people do this. Using this same logic, I saw an older white man hit his wife once in the street, so now I assume that all older white men hit their wives. Stop this nonsense. I don’t know if you are just bored or impressionable by being inundated with scare tactic ****.
Biological women live in a world where the overwhelming majority of violence and sex crimes committed against biological women is by biological men. Women have to constantly be aware that a biological male could hurt them. Biological males do not have that same fear of biological females. First it shows how we have failed as biological males, but that’s another discussion… but second, it explains why women can be very wary of having a biological male in their lock rooms or bathrooms. Do all biological women feel this way? No, but more do than you would likely think. Many women are uncomfortable or afraid to discuss how they feel out of fear of being labeled a bigot and social pressure. Is that the fault of a M to F transgendered person? No, but it also isn’t fair to overlook the unique culture and historic fears women have and to basically tell them to deal with it, without even acknowledging that is the reality. Im not going to go into a predominately black area and tell them how they should feel… likewise I am not going to tell women how they should feel about how things impact them.
Yes and 15 of her own teammates anonymously wrote a letter saying she shouldn’t be able to compete with them. There are also numerous competitors of hers that have said she shouldn’t be able to compete. Phelps even said it isn’t fair when it comes to competitions. It’s a highly and hotly contested issues within the culture of women and women’s athletes and athletics. It is an issue that’s very divided.
I'm not going to pretend I have all the answers. What I do know is that it causes me little to know problem to address people by their preferred pronouns. Most folks have other things to worry about than who competes in the Skateboard competition and who doesn't. If I happen in the future to be involved in a situation where transgender participants in a skateboard competition become an issue for me, I'll try and find an empathetic way to resolve it. Other than understanding that using preferred pronouns leads to almost zero issues and addressing people by their preferred pronouns can help them, it seems like a non-issue. If I'm not sure whether or not someone have preferred pronouns, I can ask in a way that let's them know, I'm trying to be respectful. And I can end up learning something as well. It isn't difficult to do that much. I don't understand why someone wouldn't do that much. Obviously some people are so bothered by it, they are scared when their children aren't repulsed by the idea. I just don't understand it.
