Not so. He has been a good player his whole career. I can not believe he is being bashed on Houston Rockets board for playing as hard as he can with a bad heart and a bad knee. We would not have won last night's game without his incredibly efficient scoring. The only reason I would not support a Rockets player is if he doesn't play hard. I repeat: He plays for the Houston Rockets. What the hell is wrong with you? Character guy, great teammate. What more do you want? He's rounding into shape and he'll have a lot more games like he did last night. Some of you on this board are so hateful that you would bash your own momma if you got a chance. Everybody would be a nice acquisition until they play for us. Stro went from pipedream (not having enough money to sign him) to bust in two weeks. Thing is, our team revolves around Tracy and Yao. Any third option we can get, can not have a huge impact on the game. Howard is a 17 pt career scorer. He plays hard and he never complains. Let's trade him for Eddie Griffin
Rather than saying ...."ummm....no." Please refute that claim with anything concrete. Who was the Lakers PF? Who was the best player in the league. Shaq/Kobe. Who was the Bulls PF (pre-Rodman)? Who was the best player in the league. Jordan. Who was the 95 Rockets PF? Who was the best player in the league. Dream. Who was the spurs PF (post Admiral)? Who was the best player in the league. Duncan. Championship NBA teams are made by their best player ...not their worst. If what I say is "ummm...no," then how do you explain 0-8 w/out TMac and 9-2 with TMac? I imagine you won't bother to respond because you are getting bored of me wearing you out on this. I continue to substantiate my claims while you just spout emotional, blind hatred toward Juwan. [EDIT] I was rambling so I cut down my original post.
ZBoy isn't talking about a dynasty. He is talking about a single trip deep in the the playoffs. If the Rockets don't do it, according to ZBoy, it'll ALL be Juwan's fault. I'm not sure how ZBoy reconciles that we got bounced in the 1st round w/out Juwan. So I'm not sure who he blames that loss on. Its probably still Juwan's fault I suppose because he didn't yell loud enough from the bench. That soft punk! ZBoy, most folks think Juwan would have helped vs Dallas. But I'm sure you think that the only way we managed to drag it to 7 games was because of Juwan's absence, right? Had Juwan played, its Dallas in 5 right?
Howard should be an okay backup at this point in his career. Blame CD and/or JVG if your are upset at how much Howard plays for not getting/playing a better PF. I think Swift does a little bit more than dunk better than Howard. He is a better scorer at this point and is doing better generally with defense. Howard's big advantage over Swift is his experience. He doesn't make as many mistakes as Swift.
Wow. Wrong on so many accounts. None of those teams gave extended minutes to scrubs in playoff runs, or atleast not of Juwon's scruby level. Sorry to hate your bubble but Tmac/Yao are not at Shaq/Kobe level yet. Maybe someday they will be, but not yet. As for PF, that old fart who kept hitting 3s in clutch, called Robert Horry comes to mind. While Shaq/Kobe went along doing their things, it was tough defense of Rick Fox on Peja, the tougness and good supporting role of guys like Derrick Fisher that helped them. When did you start watching basketballl? Starting this century? Horace grant was as good a power forward you could find as a role player. He was a smart and tough defender, guareded his own man, as well as helped on defense. He was a Charles Oakley, minus the attitude, but plus shotblocking ability. Him, Pippen, and Jordan were the best at showing full court trapping defense. Jordan won first 3 rings with a PF named Grant, and last 3 with Rodman. And I am not even going to go into his cast of good and dependable role players. Bad example on your part, once again, bud. Do your research first. You know who the 95 Power Forward for Rockets was? It was Robert Horry. 95 playoffs was the first time, Robert Horry started being used as a PF. There were two reasons for this. 1) We had Chucky Brown as the next option. (BTW I would take Chucky Brown over Juwon Howard. Bwahaha. The man would sarcrifice his body to prevent a layup, unlike Howard, who welcomes penetrators with open arms. Ok back to Horry... 2) He would create mismatch. It was hard for opposing PFs to come out to guard him at 3 point land. 3) He is one of the best post passers in the game. 4) He was the key clog in stopping transition defense, since he got to camp at 3 point land. Those Rockets did not give a damn about offensive rebound. They were last in the league in that category. Based on the success of how Horry performed in that run, Horry has been used in similar fashion at PF by lakers and Spurs, in all cases resulting in a Championship. Moving on to next bad example. Duncan has been surrounded by great roles players ever since he came into the league. Spurs win, not because they are loaded with superstars. They have always had excellent role players. Nice of you to brush aside 2 championships Spurs won with Admiral at PF/supporint role. Duncan and Robinson were interchangeable. The didnt have to rely on a scrub PF. And then last year they got Nazr Muhammed. I would take that guy over scruby Juwon Howard anyday! Sorry bud, but unless you are Jordan, or Hakeem, you need excellent role players to win a championship. Rockets are missing some key pieces in those terms.... 1) Dependable PF who protects Yao from fouls, consistently scores 12-15 points a game (even under pressure situations), either blocks shots on help defense ala Horace grant, or seals the paint ala Charles Oakley, and most importtantly, brings TOUGHNESS. Currently, we dont have anyone who does all these things. Juwon can only make jumpers and even then he is inconsistent. Swift can help on defense but ha slong ways to go in other areas. BTW, Rockets need a good PF, especially considering, it would hide Yao's weaknesses, which are due to his physical limitations, mor ethan anything. 2) A TOUGH perimeter defender. A Bruce Bowen type who can take on the assignement of guarding the other teams best perimeter scorer on a nightly basis. We dont have anything resembling that, and that shows on a nightly basis. Every struggling team seems to catch fire against us. Until we get these 2 positions filled, we are not winning a championship. Role players get you a looooooong way. Just ask Detroit Pistons. And quit bringing regular season game vs sonics and 0-8 in regular season stats. Regular season will not give you championship. All I am saying is, if we are entering the plaoffs while depending on Juwon Howard to give us 20+ productive minutes, AND win a championship, we are delusional. We will do good in playofs depending on how well the team plays and how superbely Yao/Tmac perform to hide the deficiancies in our role player. But they cannot do it all way to the way to championship with guys like Juwon. He is too much a liability. He should be getting around 5-10 minutes at tops and noen of those minutes should be coming into crunch time. In crunch time Juwon should not even sniff the court. Fine him even if he comes as close as 5 feet to it! Rockets should buy a seat 10 rows behind their bench for Howard in crunch time The 9th row should be occupied by a Sumo wrestler, so that he can eclipse Howard completely, just to avoid JVG from even thinking of putting Juwon in the game. And Juwo...or Krosfya as you like to be called on clutch bbs, quit surfing and go work on your game! You scrub!
if you cant understand matchup equations in playoffs, then it is damn near impossible to explain it to you. Which position, do you suggest, Howard would defend? Who would he defend, and more importantly with Yao in the game? ESPECIALLY considering that Tmac HAD to guard Nowitzki to shut him down. So that leaves Juwon and Yao to guard perimeter players, as AJ went small on us. We all saw how they exploited the small on Yao matchup on offense. This was while playing Yao with 4 smalls. I shudder to think what would have happened with Yao and Juwon Howard at the same time. We would be a 5 cent w**** of a team. Couldnt stop anyone from scoring even if JVG climbed a 100 foot ladder and clamped that hole with a damn celibacy belt. Playoffs is a lot about matchup exploitation and AJ would have exploited Juwon's weakness to the max. We were lucky to have Juwon out. Just as Dallas was lucky to have Keith Van Horn out in 3rd game. Damn I wish that softy didnt get hurt! Why did God have to level the playing field by hurting one of their softy liabilites? Although, since Juwon is a bigger scrub, and was out longer, we still ripped off Dallas in that department!
Per Macfan: "Howard is a 17 pt career scorer. He plays hard and he never complains. Let's trade him for Eddie Griffin" I would like to have Eddie over Juwan now. I wonder if Isiah would trade Mo TAylor back for Juwan and filler? I wonder if we could trade Juwan to Chicago for Othella Harrington?
Nice game by Juwon Howard today. Got away from whatever he was smoking in the last game and went back to himself, being the scrub he is. lol On a side note....I shouldnt be laughing at my team's miseries but Juwon's worthlessness just amuses me now. I might be getting to that Moochie relationship with him. You know he is worthless but instead of pulling your hair over him, you just entertain yourself.
That's EXACTLY my point. We won't win a championship until TMac/Yao ARE at that level. If they DO reach that level, Juwan's "scrubbiness" will be trivial. Chucky Who? Well, enough said. I now know I am not speaking to a rational person. I think we are done here. btw, Robert Horry WAS a scrub. If you recall, he was NON-existent until the playoffs and didn't coin the nick-name Big Shot Bob until his Laker days...well AFTER he left the Rockets. Horry was a scrub who hit big shots. That's it. Anyway, I'm done. If you'd take Chucky Brown over Juwan Howard then we can't have a rational conversation..."on so many levels."
see my post about hating ex-Rocket heroes... Why are you lower IQ Rocket fans wanting some dude who scores 30pts and grab 30 rebounds a game? we arent trying to make an allstar team, we are trying to make a team with great chemistry and great role players to compliment our all stars. Horry blocks shots, plays good D, grabs tons of steals, and hits game winners. I'd love that guy on this team. Robert Horry is the GREATEST PLAYOFF FORWARD OF ALL TIME. A SCRUB CANNOT HIT BIG SHOTS, THUS THEY ARE SCRUBS!! See what I tell you people!! there are haters here that hate and dont know a thing about basketball except that it is round. hey krospafdsafjkls, Robert Horry has something sign language for you. Rocket fans like you make Robert Horry sign with the LAKERS AND SPURS.
Do you think Juwan is better than a stiff like Tom Gugliotta? Gugliotta also had a large contract, but is not in the league now.. Just wondering....
Dude, way to jump into this thread and take my comment out of context and then toss in an insult. CONTEXT: When comparing Robert Horry to Juwan Howard, prior to when the Rockets won the championship in '95, Horry WAS a scrub. Horry built his reputation because he hit big shots over his career...not because he was a stellar PF in 1995. That's reality...not hating. At the time, Horry was INCREDIBLY frustrating because his play was absent during the regular season despite his physical gifts. But he always showed up in the playoffs. Stick that down your IQ pipe and smoke it.
Actually, Juwan still wasn't nearly as bad as you like to portray: 1. Poor rebounder In 25 minutes, He had 10 boards. 3 offensive. Not bad. 2. Guards consistently steal rebounds from him Didn't happen once. (two games in a row. consistent, huh?) In the 1st period, Mobley did come around on a rebound and knocked the ball from Juwan's hands out of bounds. But Rockets kept possession. 3. Zero post moves Last night. True. zero post moves. 4. gets outmuscled by guards for loose balls Don't recall Juwan getting outmuscled for a loose ball. 4. Low BB IQ and he makes boneheaded passes No turnovers and 3 assists. I'll take that from my 4th option every day. Granted, Howard didn't hit any shots but he only took 2 shots. The way TMac was chucking up shots and we well as Yao was playing, there weren't many shots left to go around. Despite points, Howard had a solid game. And did you notice Elton Brand lighting up Stro in the 4th qtr because he sucks defensively. And did you notice JVG yanked Stro out and put Howard back in? (Brand ain't gonna be stopped by anybody because he's an MVP candidate...but JVG liked Howard's defense better than Stro's and JVG forgot more about NBA defense yesterday than you'll know you're entire life) I thought I said I was done w/ this thread. Oh well, I just watched in Tivo so I had to point out your fallacy yet again that Howard ain't the worst player on the court. Howard is simply an average player. Nothing more nothing less.
At first I was doubting if you have started watching basketball recently. But after reading this comment I am sure you have. Playoffs are where names are made. While Horry made a name in playoffs, Juwon earned his scrub nickname in regular season. Horry - multiple rings and counting. Juwon - multiple scrub performances and counting. Refer back to tinman's Horry pic with that sign language. You know what Howard's sign language reads. "L" on one hand. "0" on the other with that big grin on his face. BTW Horry's nickname was coined because of his earlier clutch performances from the Rocket days and counting... Every time he is mentioned about being clutch they go back and start from his Rocket days. Since it is apparent you have started watching basketball recently, I can go back and list all the clutch shots made by horry for ya. Let me know if you want to be educated. Horry is a scrub coz he only plays well in playofs. haha! Nice one! I will take an IMPOSTER scrub like that over a real GENUINE scrub in Howard anyday!!! Bring in Chucky Brown! maybe he can teach Howard a thing or two. BTW, back to earlier point. Tmac/Yao are not Kobe/Sha yet so thats why they need good role players. Not a scrub like Howard to expose their weaknesses. Sheesh.
Even a scrub like Juwon cant be a TOTAL mess in every game. It's statistically impossible. Juwon is just not good enough to violate the laws of physics. He is only there to validate the existence of scrubs and their worthlessness. BTW, he SUCKED in last game.
Ok, someone wanted to define what a scrub is. I'll let you guys get into that. BUT, aside from different definitions of a scrub, I'd like to echo your point, alter a little bit. "Horry was a scrub who hit big shots." Now compare that to present day: Howard is a scrub who *DOES NOT* hit big shots. 'nuff said!
