Averaging 17/7 when he was considered first option in all those losing teams is as scruby as it gets.
Juwan is a good player. Last year he was very good. A lot of posters even thought that if he were in the lineup against Dallas, we would have won that playoff series. He's coming off 2 major injuries, one being a scary heart condition. Give him some time. He was moving well and decisive on offense last night, the shot just wouldn't fall. Stromile has been disappointing this year as well, but both should improve as they are playing way below their potential.
Howard is what he's always been: OK. For the past 2 years however, the quality of that OK has diminished but he's still a fairly OK bench player. The problem for the Rockets is that he is NOT starting PF material especially when they play in a conference with KG, Dirk, TD & (when he was healthy) Amare. The PF position has been a black hole ever since Kato left and neither Swift nor Howard are the answer there. The fact that they (Rockets) get so very little production from the 4 is a major weakness that other teams will continue to exploit as long as they keep running Howard out there as a starter.
Okay, lets have a look at what you are saying from a NON-hater perspective: As evidence, scrubs don't get 100mil contracts. Maybe he didn't live up to 100mil...but to say he has ALWAYS been a scrub just shows you are hating. Boki Nachbar...scrub. Juwan Howard...respectible career albeit never lived up to the hype. But probably 80% of NBA players (past/present) would love to have Howard's career #'s. Everybody can't be a hall of famer. True, not great but he's underrated. Howard only averages 26mpg w/ the Rockets. His rebounding is actually up from Orlando to over 10rpg per 48. That isn't "terrible" as you say. Not stellar but not "terrible"..just average. But guards take rebounds away from every player in the league on a consistent basis. Next. Lets count tonight against Seattle how many times this happens. I'll go with ZERO times. I wouldn't be surprised it it happens once as $h1t happens to the best of them. Howard normally gets probably 2-3 post moves to go down per game. From probably our 4th or 5th option, I can live with that. He's no AK47 but he performs reliabely on the defensive end against the superior talent in the west. Outmuscled by guards? Please. Again, lets keep track of that stat tonight against Seattle. I'll go w/ ZERO times again. Out muscled by loose balls. Usually guards DO get the loose balls. Big guys aren't diving much. But a guard ripping the ball from Howards hands, not such a big problem. Granted. Again, lets keep track of how many times Juwan gets his shot blocked in Seattle. I'm gonna go with ZERO. Considering he has no vertical, I call it SMART that he gets a shot off w/out getting blocked...not scared. Call it what YOU want. Please inform us how you know how good he is at following instructions, much less simple instructions? And how do you know he bungled the play. Does JVG call you after the games? No jumping ability means not a good shot blocker. Everybody has their weaknesses. Funny enough, both Boykins and Howard this season are averaging .1 BPG. But that is an anomoly. That is a career low for Howard and a career high for Boykins and we are only, what, 20 games into the season. But still pretty funny. Liability? That is the biggest Juwan Myth, IMO. JVG starts Juwan over Stro because Stro IS a defensive liability. Howard, while not spectacular, is reliable. Stro isn't...yet. btw, we absolutely would have won w/ Juwan, IMO. We didn't lose against the Mavs because of defense. (Although TMac did get tired trying to keep up w/ Dirk which Juwan could have spelled Juwan a few extra minutes of hard defense.) We lost because we got shut down in the 4th qtr. Juwan was regularly hitting his open J's last season. We could have used hit 5-10ppg immensely. I don't recall Howard making less boneheaded passes than anybody else on the team. Stro regularly makes some of the worst passes on the team, however. So you get your basketball advice from your girlfriend. It all makes sense now. Matchups. We can't have 4 guards on the court at all time. You are just getting silly now. Howard does get SOME rebounds. How many guards Granted. But if we use your logic, we would have to trade the entire team as they all were in a slump. They all looked like a roll of toilet paper when we went 0-8. Give him time. If we doesn't pull out of the slump, then feel free to dump on it. Then I will too. You need to lower your expectation level of Howard, dude. Lighten up...you'll live longer.
My defense is that i made a typo. I meant to say good offensive player, typed in a hurry because i had to study for my exam. I did really good on the exam. Finished in 15 minutes, way before anyone else. Finished so fast, the teacher felt like he was stupid. Juwan has no post moves but he can hit the jumper really well. He is undependable because he isnt part of the offense. JVG doesnt really use him.
Juwan's problem is, he's not good at defense, but JVG and the team need him to be! We need a Haslem but hes Juwan. If we are lucky enough, we may trade him before long! but he's not that bad, at least he can shot mid-range.
Would you trade Juwan plus fodder for Croshere, to get his shorter contract in return? The last two years of Juwan's contract could be painful.
Hmm, let's see. Who's the first option on that losing team in Atlanta? Right, Harrington. He's 17/7 last season and 17/8 this season. No, maybe Joe Johnson is their first option now. He's 18/4/5 for them. Yeah, those two are scruby too.
I dont care what anyone is trying to sell. Juwon is about as terrible a PF in this Division/Conference. The dude, I believe has 1...yes uno blocks this year. He had a whopping 5 last year. He is soft, he doesnt rebound, his rotations are usually terrible and he BRINGS ZERO weak side help/shot blocking. How can you be a Power foward when you arent getting to the hoop, blocking shots, getting boards, or a help on weak side shot blocking? NOT to meniton shooting 40 percent? Its time to sink or swim with SS. At least let him learn at with the starters and build a chemistry. Thats why he's always so lost out there. He gets in the game for stretches of 3 or so mins at a time. I understand hes been foul prone, but let him work that out. Who's going to learn, or gel, or build chemistry when he's being pulled every 3-5 mins.
Yes he stinks, but who else do we have beisde swift? He's still productive and we just gonna have to deal with it unless he's traded sometimes soon.
I didnt realize Atlanta was tearing up the league. Bad example considering they are one of the two worst teams in the league. Atlanta is a haven for scrubs.
Actually, Joe Johnson is a terrible example because he left Suns to play in Atlanta for the minutes and money. He was begging for scrubbiness, and thats what he got. He is a loser scrub!
Heh. This is a great thread. I gotta agree with ZBoy on the bad team -> inflated numbers line. I remember a couple years after Juwan signed that massive contract, he was in a game vs. the Celtics where Antoine Walker torched him for 49 points. It was clear he was overrated by then already. Joe Johnson may be even worse than Juwan. At least Juwan had a few good seasons before he got paid. Joe Johnson has had a couple good seasons on a team with Nash feeding him (PHX), and numbers that are marginally better than Mike James, on a team where he is the 1st option (ATL). In any case, I think Juwan has a better understanding of his role than Swift, it's just sad that Juwan can no longer do most of the things that role requires.
Not exactly. There are some exceptions. Take Juwon Howard for example. Team will do great because it has Tmac and Yao, and now Luther Head. Juwon is just there for free ride, but he will still be a scrub!!!! Difference between Juwon and anyone in Atlanta is that Juwon is one sly b*stard! He gets himself $100 million contract for never performing in playoffs and then sells his soul to the devil to ride Tmac and Yao's coattail! Actually, its not him taking free rides that pisses me off. It's him deviating from his role of being a scrub-master and trying to jack up bricks that gets to me.
I would trade Juwan for Croshere's expiring contract. Hell- I would trade Juwan for any -salary matching -expiring contract - Hello - Mr. Isiah Thomas- got any garbage you want to dump??? In all fairness- I strongly and sincerely believe that Juwan could have contributed well in the Dallas Series. He might have made the difference. Seriously....... You guys are right- Juwan is what he is, but I would really like to get rid of that dog-boat anchor contract
You said Juwan was the first option on a losing team. I am giving you a first option on a losing team. Why is it a bad example?
LOL. Funny statement. Don't even know how to decipher your logic! First, people gave him 100 mil. BECAUSE he never performed in playoffs? Even if it was true, how was it HIS fault? Second, he sells his soul to ride Tmac and Yao's coattail? Did he asked to be traded to the Rockets? I didn't know a "scrub" had this kind of power. OK, I give up. You are clearly blindly hating him. What have he done to you personally? I can't believe I am arguing for Juwan Howard. I don't even like his game that much.
