This is an "I told you so" thread, but I don't know who Jeff is talking to. I don't know anyone who thinks or thought Hakeem is the player he used to be. He's what 38, 39? My thoughts were always let him leave on his own terms, and be straightforward in your position (don't act like you want to re-sign him if you don't). And Glen Rice and Kelvin Cato are ENTIRELY relevant: Because he is putting up numbers that the Rockets have shown they think are worthy of a 3-year deal. See: Moochie Norris, Glen Rice, Kelvin Cato. We can't point to what other guys on the same team are making to show what someone else should be worth? The Rockets are the ones dishing out the money, and they have decided that the production of Glen Rice, Moochie Norris, and Kelvin Cato is worthy of multi-year high-dollar commitments. Looking at that, how can you or the Rockets say that Hakeem's current production is not worthy of the same commitment?
Imagine what Dream could teach Eddie? Instead we have Cato teaching him how to get money and get fat.
The Raptors winning percentage currently is not better than what they ended up at last season. They would have to start playing better in order to surpasse what they did last year. I don't care about where they were "at this point", I am looking at the bigger picture. And I am not judging Dream by this one game. I have seen plenty of games by the Raptors, and they are not involving Dream in the offense any more then than they did against us. Dream's defensive numbers are still good, but his offense is not any better than what it was in Houston. Overall, I don't feel like the Raptors are utilizing him any better than the Rockets would. But I wouldn't blame him for being glad that he did miss out on the Rockets current season. It just seems to me that in old age a great deal of what might seem important now (regular season wins, etc) will seem less so in old age, and he might end up regretting the move. But then again, I don't really know, and am just speculating. But hell, nearly everyone who says anything about why Dream left, or why the Rockets "let him go", is speculating because there is really only one guy who knows the whole truth.
Well said.. I agree 100%. We all dont know what happened and are just speculating. the knowledgeable among us are making better speculation.. but bottomline, it's still a speculation. Dream did what's good for him. Like some, I felt bad, little hurt and blamed Rockets & Rudy for letting him go.. but then realized I was just speculating .. We dont know what really happened. on another note.. about Dreams Game... I watched a few Raptors games this season(only for Dream. once he goes to bench I switch the channel ). And I believe he is looking better than he did here in Houston last year. He is not the same 'Dream' and his offense hasn't picked up yet but he is hustling harder. He is running on the court and his intensity seemed a little bit up. And BTW, rockets game was one of those back to back's and may be that's the reason he didn't have a good game. I still believe that towards end of season and into playoffs, he is going to be very valuable for Raptors.
Heath, is Cato's lethargy and poor attitude Dream's fault? Eddie seems to have a great attitude and wants to learn. Having one of the top 5 Cs in league history around to teach him would be invaluable. This isn't brain surgery, son. You should be able to understand it.
I'm not saying it is Dream's fault. I'm just saying Dream is not known to be a big mentor, so I doubt that he would have thought Eddie anything.
This "he could've taught" argument has got to be one of the biggest pile of poo arguments for ANY player at ANY position. I'd rank it up there with "the Rockets are great with big men" argument. Another piece of crap statement. Eddie is great because Eddie is great, not because what anybody can teach him. Several teams have brought in some of the biggest names in history to coach, assistant coach, or lead in some manner, and I haven't seen any player turn into something greater for it afterwards. Want some examples? : Calvin Murphy is on the Rockets... why can't he teach them to be 80% FT shooters? That bastid! Kareem couldn't make the Clippers and Olowokandi better and he's Kareem! Who exactly did Larry Bird turn into a star by coaching the Pacers? Larry Smith was one of the most ferocious rebounders in the game, yet we have a tit-mouse of a PF in Mo Taylor. Come on Larry, teach, teach! Mo would be a force if he could just rebound! Bad Larry! How about another Calvin Murphy argument? Why is Calvin having to scold Francis for not taking the mid-range jumper Murph was so well-known for? Murph was lethal from that range. If Francis could stop-and-pop like Murph, he'd be phenomenal. Damn that Murphy for not teaching him! Would somebody please help Shaq shoot FT's?! How about Rick Barry? He's one of the greatest. Surely Rick could teach Shaq. Uh, no. The fact of the matter is, the greatest players in the game are great because they are born to be great, or they strive for greatness on their own. There may be a few exceptions, but not many. Karl Malone was a horrible FT shooter... he became a great one. Clyde Drexler was not a great jump shooter, he became a great one. Michael Jordan was a decent jump shooter, but towards the end of his last stint, he was lethal. Hakeem was nothing but a dunking machine in college, by the prime of his career, he was unstoppable inside, outside, and any other side. How did they become great? They took it upon themselves to become great. They isolated their weaknesses and made it their strengths. You don't foul Malone anymore ('cept for maybe Kenyon), you were forced to guard Jordan's and Clyde's jumpers, you were forced to respect Hakeem's spin moves and outside game. Who the hell taught them this? Bird? Chamberlain? Russell? No. I guarantee you if Eddie attempted Hakeem's spin moves, he'd be called for traveling... Those who want to be great become great if they have skills not necessarily if they have great teachers. Like you said, BTM, it ain't brain surgery...
Ask Keon Clark of the Raptors what he thinks about Dream's tutelage. All the Raptors centers have openly said that Dream has made them better just listening to him. Even Eric Montross! To think Dream couldn't help with Eddie's developement and make him a better player is insane. btw- The Rocks should go mad after Keon Clark in the offseason if they can. I see star PF. Dream apparently said that Keon can do things he's never done before. That's a huge complement coming from one of the top 5 Cs of all time.
BTM, It is widely known that Hakeem isn't the "mentor" type, the only way he could "teach" someone is through example only. I remember reading a quote from Clark, and he basically said that he just learned how to act like a professional, Dream has nothing to do with Clark's actual on-the-court play. Hell, Kevin Willis can "teach" Eddie everything that Hakeem could "teach"...
You are of course aware, BTM, that Hakeem had to learn from SOMEBODY. He wasn't unstoppable on offense when he arrived in Houston. He was taught. Guess who is a great big man teacher? Carrol Dawson. Carrol Dawson is still with the team, and he can teach Griffin like Hakeem was taught. We don't need Dream here to do this. And really, do you expect Keon Clark and Montross to say "No, we have learned nothing from Dream since he has arrived. Largely, his play disgusts us." They were likely asked if Dream had taught them anything since being there, and they responded in the politically correct and accepted way. Having seen Clark and Montross this season, neither of them look any better than they did last year.
Yes, ask one of his teammates what they think of him... I'm sure they'll say "he doesn't help me one effin' bit". Eric Montross... I can see the second coming of Olajuwon in him. The fadeaway, the drop step, the spin moves, the fakes... my God, he has become one with the Hakeem. Wut evah.
Yah, what do his teammates know? They only see him every day and practice with him. Go to a board like Fanhome or RealGM and ask Raptor fans if Keon Clark has improved his game. I watch a lot of Raptor games and he is WAY better than he was last year.
Jesus, BTM. You completely missed the point. No one said that his teammates didn't know, just that they wouldn't say that Dream wasn't helping them if indeed he wasn't. Ah screw it. I feel like I am talking to my juicer.
I would submit that Hakeem learned more from going up against Moses Malone at Fonde every summer than he ever learned from Dawson.
