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Where are the WMD? US changes its strategy

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by underoverup, Apr 22, 2003.

  1. myco

    myco Member

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    The argument could be made that one is enough.
     
  2. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    Yep and if they find one it may be that it would have been enough. So far they haven't found one.
     
  3. Maynard

    Maynard Member

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    I believe that if the President of the United States of America misled the American people in order to invade a sorviegn nation, he should be held accontable. That is relevant now, and it will be relevant in Nov 2004.
     
  4. underoverup

    underoverup Member

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    WMD and Iraq-- What they said:

    Statements from Washington, London and others involved in the war in Iraq and the search for its alleged weapons of mass destruction have changed with the progress of time. Track who said what -- and when they said it -- on a variety of issues, including claims Iraq was seeking uranium from Africa and that it could launch an attack in 45 minutes.

    "The danger to our country is grave. The danger to our country is growing. The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons. The Iraqi regime is building the facilities necessary to make more biological and chemical weapons ... Each passing day could be the one on which the Iraqi regime gives anthrax or VX -- nerve gas -- or some day a nuclear weapon to a terrorist ally."

    -- U.S. President George W. Bush in meeting with Congressional leaders, September 26, 2002

    "Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

    -- U.S. President George W. Bush in remarks to the nation on the eve of Iraq war, March 17, 2003

    "Iraq had a weapons program. Intelligence throughout the decade showed they had a weapons program. I am absolutely convinced with time we'll find they did have a weapons program."

    -- U.S. President George W. Bush to reporters at a Cabinet meeting, June 9, 2003

    "They're looking at the sites we have knowledge of, and of course the reality is that, if we have knowledge of a site -- and a suspect site is probably the way we should phrase it -- it's very likely things are not there. ... The only way I know we're going to get it is through people. If anyone has any ideas, we're always happy to hear them."

    -- U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, CNN’s Late Edition, May 5, 2003

    "The coalition did not act in Iraq because we had discovered dramatic new evidence of Iraq's pursuit of weapons of mass murder. ... We acted because we saw the evidence in a dramatic new light -- through the prism of our experience on 9/11."

    -- U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld to the Senate Armed Services Committee, July 9, 2003

    Saddam’s WMD program is "active, detailed and growing. ... Let me be plain about our purpose. Of course there is no doubt that Iraq, the region and the whole world would be better off without Saddam …. But our purpose is disarmament."

    -- UK Prime Minister Tony Blair revealing a 50-page dossier on Iraq compiled by the British security services, to the House of Commons, September 24, 2002

    "I think it would be useful if we waited until we actually got the full evidence before us. … In the meantime, it’s important that people don’t make a judgment until they actually get what the experts uncover."

    -- UK Prime Minister Tony Blair, speaking at the G-8 summit in Evian, France, June 2, 2003

    There is "no reliable information on whether Iraq is producing and stockpiling chemical weapons or where Iraq has -– or will -– establish its chemical warfare agent production facilities."

    -- Defense Intelligence Agency Operational Support Study, September 2002, part of which was obtained by CNN

    "Believe me, it's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition-supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, and they're simply not there."

    -- Lt. Gen. James Conway, commander of the U.S. 1st Marine Expeditionary Force, on the search for WMD, May 30, 2003

    Copyright 2003 CNN
     
  5. underoverup

    underoverup Member

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    Blix is not backing down to what must be incredible pressure from the US and Britain-- Good for him and good for us. More individuals with influence around the world continue to step forward and blast the war effort in Iraq. The Bush administration's "you're either with us or against us" rhetoric is just about played out.

    In the run up to war in Iraq, Washington had argued that as well as the imminent threat posed by Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, Saddam's government had close links to al Qaeda, the terrorist network run by Osama bin Laden.
    However Blix told British radio Thursday that a pre-war British dossier on Iraqi weapons "led the reader to the conclusions that are a little further reaching" than was the case. "What in a way stands accused is the culture of spin, the culture of hyping," said Blix.


    Blix attacks Iraq weapons 'spin'
    Thursday, September 18, 2003

    LONDON, England -- The U.N.'s former chief weapons inspector has attacked the "spin and hype" he says the U.S. and Britain used when warning about Saddam's weapons of mass destruction.

    Hans Blix's comments on Thursday came hours after U.S. President George W. Bush said there was no evidence that Iraq's ousted president was involved in the September 11, 2001, attacks on the U.S. -- disputing an idea held by many Americans.

    "There's no question that Saddam Hussein had al Qaeda ties," Bush said. But he added: "We have no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the September 11."

    In the run up to war in Iraq, Washington had argued that as well as the imminent threat posed by Iraqi weapons of mass destruction, Saddam's government had close links to al Qaeda, the terrorist network run by Osama bin Laden.

    However Blix told British radio Thursday that a pre-war British dossier on Iraqi weapons "led the reader to the conclusions that are a little further reaching" than was the case. "What in a way stands accused is the culture of spin, the culture of hyping," said Blix.

    "We know advertisers will advertise a refrigerator in terms that we don't quite believe in, but we expect governments to be more serious and have more credibility."

    He added that the coalition should have allowed U.N. weapons inspections to continue working after they were pulled out on March 18 after three months' -- two days before the U.S.-led invasion.

    In the five months since Saddam's overthrow, the U.S.-led Iraq Survey Group -- composed of 1,400 scientists, military and intelligence experts -- has failed to uncover any banned weapons.

    Blix's comments come as the Hutton inquiry continues in London into the death of UK government scientist David Kelly, who apparently killed himself after he was named as the source for a BBC story that the government exaggerated the threat posed by Iraq.

    Prime Minister Tony Blair's office has consistently denied misleading the public.

    But Bush and Blair have come under mounting pressure to prove that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and both have seen their popularity ratings fall in opinion polls.

    In an interview on Australian radio on Wednesday, Blix said he believed that Iraq had destroyed most of its weapons of mass destruction 10 years ago, but maintained the appearance it had them to deter a military attack.

    Copyright 2003 CNN
     
  6. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Powell Tries to Explain 2001 Remarks on Iraq
    Thu Sep 25, 5:36 PM ET

    UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Secretary of State Colin Powell tried on Thursday to explain away remarks on Iraq dating back to the beginning of the Bush administration, before the United States decided to invade Iraq.

    <b>Speaking in Cairo in February 2001, on his first Middle East trip, Powell said that Iraq had not developed "any significant capacity" in weapons of mass destruction and was not able to attack his neighbors with conventional weapons. </b>

    A former Democratic congressional aide dug out his remarks this week and has circulated them to the media.

    Asked why he changed his assessment, Powell said: "I didn't change my assessment... I did not say he (Iraqi President Saddam Hussein) didn't have weapons of mass destruction."

    "He was a threat then. The extent of his holdings were yet to be determined. It was early in the administration and the fact of the matter is it was long before 9/11 (the date of the 2001 attacks on the United States)," he added.

    The main rationale cited for invading Iraq was that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and might pass them on to extremist groups like al Qaeda.

    But since last March's invasion no one has been able to find any such weapons in Iraq, nor evidence of a link between Saddam and al Qaeda, the group blamed for the 2001 attacks.

    "A lot changed between February 2001 (and the invasion), but I don't find anything inconsistent between what I said then and what I've said all along," Powell said.

    Speaking in Cairo in 2001 after a meeting with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak

    <b>"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors.”</b>


    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030925/ts_nm/iraq_powell_dc_4
     
  7. underoverup

    underoverup Member

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    The top aide to President Bush dismissed the finding by leaders of the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee that much of the information relied upon was fragmentary or dated back to when U.N. inspectors left Iraq in 1998.

    "There were significant deficiencies with respect to the IC's (intelligence community's) intelligence collection activities concerning Iraq's WMD programs and ties to al-Qa'ida (al Qaeda) prior to the commencement of hostilities there." Rice did not comment on Saddam's alleged ties to Osama bin Laden. The CIA dismissed the "notion that our community does not challenge standing judgments."

    CIA adviser David Kay, who has been coordinating the hunt for Iraq's banned weapons, is scheduled to present lawmakers with an interim report in the coming week, but was not expected to reveal that any weapons had been found, sources have said.


    White House Insists It Had Iraq WMD Intelligence
    By Tabassum Zakaria

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - White House national security adviser Condoleezza Rice said on Sunday there was new U.S. intelligence obtained before the Iraqi war about Baghdad's weapons of mass destruction programs, despite an assertion to the contrary by key congressional leaders.

    "The president believes that he had very good intelligence going into the war," Rice said on the "Fox News Sunday" program.

    The top aide to President Bush dismissed the finding by leaders of the House of Representatives Intelligence Committee that much of the information relied upon was fragmentary or dated back to when U.N. inspectors left Iraq (news - web sites) in 1998.

    "There was enrichment of the intelligence from 1998 over the period leading up to the war," Rice insisted. "And nothing pointed to a reversal of Saddam Hussein's very active efforts to acquire weapons of mass destruction."

    "... It was very clear that this continued and it was a gathering danger." "Yes, I think I would call it new information and it was certainly enriching the case in the same direction," she added.

    Rice answered charges made by House Intelligence Committee Chairman Porter Goss, a Florida Republican, and Rep. Jane Harman, a California Democrat, in a letter to the CIA, obtained by Reuters on Saturday.

    The letter, dated on Thursday, to CIA Director George Tenet said intelligence assessments that Iraq continued to pursue chemical and biological weapons and had ties to terror groups were long-standing judgments that were not routinely challenged within the intelligence agencies.

    'CONSTANT AND STATIC'
    "The assessment that Iraq continued to pursue chemical and biological weapons remained constant and static over the past 10 years," it said.

    But there was "insufficient specific information" about former Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's plans and intentions, the status of Iraq's WMD programs and capabilities, and Iraq's links to al Qaeda, it said.

    The lawmakers, whose letter did not reflect the full committee's opinion, cited weakness in intelligence from spies on the ground and said the government needed to develop better sources.

    They concluded: "There were significant deficiencies with respect to the IC's (intelligence community's) intelligence collection activities concerning Iraq's WMD programs and ties to al-Qa'ida (al Qaeda) prior to the commencement of hostilities there." Rice did not comment on Saddam's alleged ties to Osama bin Laden. The CIA dismissed the "notion that our community does not challenge standing judgments."

    "Iraq was an intractable and difficult subject. The tradecraft of intelligence rarely has the luxury of having black and white facts," spokesman Bill Harlow said.

    The United States justified going to war largely because of a threat from Iraq's biological, chemical and nuclear weapons programs, but no such weapons have been found.

    CIA adviser David Kay, who has been coordinating the hunt for Iraq's banned weapons, is scheduled to present lawmakers with an interim report in the coming week, but was not expected to reveal that any weapons had been found, sources have said.

    Rice said Kay's report was "only going to be a progress report and is likely not going to draw any major conclusions."

    "He's got a very long way still to go," she told Fox.

    An October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate report on Iraq said it had continued its WMD programs, had chemical and biological weapons and was reconstituting its nuclear weapons programs.

    "We have not found any information in the assessments that are still classified that was any more definitive," the lawmakers said.
     
  8. underoverup

    underoverup Member

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    Everything is beginning to tie together into a massive scandal -- Blaming the CIA publicly for intelligence failures was probably the biggest mistake the Bush Administration has made so far. --

    The committee spent four months combing through 19 volumes of classified material used by President George W. Bush's administration to make its case for war. The letter was written by committee chairman Porter Goss, a Republican, and vice-chairman Jane Harman, the ranking Democrat.

    The letter said committee members found "significant deficiencies" in the intelligence community's ability to collect fresh intelligence on Iraq. According to the Washington Post, the letter criticised the fact that the White House relied on "past assessments" dating back to when UN inspectors left Iraq in 1998, supplemented with "some new 'piecemeal' intelligence" in reaching the conclusion that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and ties to al-Qaeda.

    "All of the dots added up to weapons and a weapons programme that was dangerous and just getting more so," she added. (Rice)
    Rice said: "This was a threat that the president of the United States could not allow to remain there."


    CIA at centre of WMD controversy

    WASHINGTON (AFP) - The Central Intelligence Agency hit back at criticism of its Iraq weapons evidence after lawmakers attacked the White House information used to justify the Iraq war. The CIA said doubts raised by two top members of the House of Representatives' intelligence committee were "absurd."

    National security advisor Condoleezza Rice also defended the White House. "The intelligence community stands fully behind its findings and judgments as stated in the national intelligence estimate on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction," CIA spokesman Bill Harlow said in a statement.

    Two top members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence said in a letter to CIA director George Tenet that the White House relied on information that was "circumstantial," "fragmentary" and filled with "many uncertainties" to justify the Iraq war, US media reports said.

    The committee spent four months combing through 19 volumes of classified material used by President George W. Bush's administration to make its case for war. The letter was written by committee chairman Porter Goss, a Republican, and vice-chairman Jane Harman, the ranking Democrat.

    The letter said committee members found "significant deficiencies" in the intelligence community's ability to collect fresh intelligence on Iraq. According to the Washington Post, the letter criticised the fact that the White House relied on "past assessments" dating back to when UN inspectors left Iraq in 1998, supplemented with "some new 'piecemeal' intelligence" in reaching the conclusion that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and ties to al-Qaeda.

    "The absence of proof that chemical and biological weapons and their related development programs had been destroyed was considered proof that they continued to exist," said the letter, which was sent last Thursday.

    In response, the CIA said the intelligence committee "has yet to take the time to fully evaluate how the national intelligence estimate was constructed and why and one what specific basis, judgements and findings were reached by our national intelligence officer and intelligence analysts." Harlow added in the statement: "The notion that our community does not challenge standing judgements is absurd.

    "In the post-1998 time period, the intelligence community launched an important and sustained effort to enhance our unilateral understanding of Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction programmes.
    "From all of our disciplines, important gains were made. "The committee has not once asked us to explain our effort or its results."

    Harlow said the committee had yet to conduct an inquiry on its "detailed, carefully sourced and comprehensive study" evidence on links between Iraq and al-Qaeda.

    "The House Intelligence Committee has yet to take the time to fully evaluate how the national intelligence estimate was constructed and why and on what specific basis judgements and findings were reached by our national intelligence officer and intelligence analysts."

    "As intelligence professionals, we, more than anyone else, want to know whether we were correct in our judgements. "But to attempt to make such a determination so quickly, and without all the facts, is premature and wrong," said the CIA spokesman.

    "Iraq was an intractable and difficult subject. The tradecraft of intelligence rarely has the luxury of having black and white facts. The judgements reached and the tradecraft used were honest and professional -- based on many years of effort and experience."

    Bush's national security advisor said the US administration had new evidence going into the war. "There was enrichment of the intelligence from 1998 over the period leading up to the war," Rice told Fox television news. She said there was information about efforts Saddam was making to "reconstitute groups of scientists that worked for him."

    A report on the hunt for Iraq's weapons programmes is to be released this week by former weapons inspector David Kay. But the CIA has warned it will not contain any new proof of Iraq's weapons programmes. Rice said it was just "a progress report" but strongly denied that the president had tried to mislead the American public.

    "All of the dots added up to weapons and a weapons programme that was dangerous and just getting more so," she added. Rice said: "This was a threat that the president of the United States could not allow to remain there."
     
  9. underoverup

    underoverup Member

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    Latest change in strategy --- more money, more experts, more wasted time.

    The request is included in the classified section of the White House's $87 billion supplemental spending request for Iraq and Afghanistan expenses, the Times said. The size of the request suggests that the search for weapons will go on, despite the fact there has not been any solid evidence that Iraq had chemical, biological or nuclear weapons, said the Times.

    A Pentagon spokesman declined to comment to the Times about the classified request for funds.


    Report: Bush Wants $600 Million for Iraq WMD Hunt

    NEW YORK (Reuters) - More than $600 million is needed to continue searching for evidence of weapons of mass destruction or other illegal arms in Iraq, The New York Times reported on Thursday, citing Bush administration officials.

    The request is included in the classified section of the White House's $87 billion supplemental spending request for Iraq and Afghanistan expenses, the Times said. The size of the request suggests that the search for weapons will go on, despite the fact there has not been any solid evidence that Iraq had chemical, biological or nuclear weapons, said the Times.

    The money is earmarked for the Iraq Survey Group, which is comprised of teams of troops and experts who are managed by the Pentagon but whose activities are coordinated by David Kay, the daily reported. Kay is former United Nations weapons inspector who has been coordinating the Central Intelligence Agency -led hunt for banned weapons in the country.

    If the administration gets all the money, it will allow the survey group to boost its staff to 1,400 from about 1,200 members, said the Times, citing officials familiar with the request.

    A Pentagon spokesman declined to comment to the Times about the classified request for funds.
     
  10. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    Taskforce 'finds no WMDs in Iraq'

    Staff and agencies
    Thursday October 2, 2003

    A US taskforce hunting for Saddam Hussein's alleged weapons of mass destruction was today expected to report that it has not found any in Iraq.
    The CIA-led Iraq Survey Group (ISG) was delivering its interim report in private hearings to US Congress members later today.

    David Kay, head of the 1,200-strong group, was expected to say that Saddam may have bluffed about WMDs to make his regime appear stronger than it was.

    According to the initial findings, Saddam may have pretended he had distributed WMDs to his most loyal commanders in a bid to deter an invasion.

    The deception probably involved moving strategic people and equipment around the country and making threatening public statements, Mr Kay, a former UN weapons inspector, was expected to say.

    One possibility was that Iraq may have destroyed many of its weapons before the 1991 Gulf war. More weaponry and facilities were destroyed by the UN in the 1990s, after the war.

    This conclusion is pure genius...:rolleyes:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1054339,00.html
     
  11. treeman

    treeman Member

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    Ah. So, what you're really mad about is that Saddam misled the American people (and the world) about the reasons for war?

    I mean, if the whole WMD issue was an effort by Saddam to make everyone think that he had them, then who misled who? Are you going to blame Bush for that one, too? How could both Saddam and Bush have lied about the same thing? They could not have.

    At best all you have is us getting duped. And by us, I mean you guys, me, the President, the CIA, and every foreign leader and intelligence service on the planet. Because we all - you guys included - thought he had them.

    I personally still think they're buried. Just pointing out the illogic of your theories...
     
  12. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    So every country that "dupes" us should prepare for invasion? Also remember that the interim conclusion we were misled is coming from Bush administration appointed investigators who are making lots of money mucking around Iraq. In fact they just got a est. 600,000,000 USD raise not a bad racket... ;)
     
  13. treeman

    treeman Member

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    Actually, Mr. Kay made no such conclusion today. That was what he was expected to say, and he did not say it. What he did say was that while no weapons have been found yet, evidence of programs has been found...

    And I would say that any country that tries to dupe the US in that area should not be surprised if the consequences of such activity are not favorable towards their regime. I'd say it would be a silly and idiotic tactic to take. At the least.

    Look where it got Saddam. If that is what happened, of course (and I don't think it is).

    And as far as the "racket" of searching for the weapons goes - I suppose you'd rather they just gave up? I would guess so, since that would give the Democratic hyenas more fuel to add to the fire... :rolleyes:
     
  14. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    Be careful Hyenas have a very powerful bite, they are also very sarcastic hence the constant laughing. I’m not so sure of their prowess with fuel and fires though…
     
  15. treeman

    treeman Member

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  16. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Where are the WMDs?

    Answer: nowhere.

    They never existed.

    CASE CLOSED.
     
  17. Nomar

    Nomar Member

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    So what.

    We still beat the **** out of a dude that needed getting the **** beaten out of him.

    Next up... whoever steps to us next.

    Iraq: PWN3D.
     
  18. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Sheer brilliance Nomar. You should really enlighten us with your insightful commentary more often.
     
  19. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    Welcome back giant thread...

    Powell: It's 'Open Question' Whether Iraq Had WMD

    TBILISI (Reuters) - Secretary of State Colin Powell said on Saturday it was an "open question" whether stocks of weapons of mass destruction would be found in Iraq and conceded it was possible Saddam Hussein had none.

    "The open question is how many stocks they had, if any, and if they had any, where did they go. And if they didn't have any, then why wasn't that known beforehand?" Powell said

    Asked which was right -- Kay's statements or Powell's argument then that Iraq had failed to account for vast quantities of chemical weapons -- Powell replied: "I think the answer to the question is, I don't know yet.


    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20040124/ts_nm/iraq_usa_powell_dc

    WMD claim puts pressure on Blair

    LONDON, England (CNN) -- The British government says the search for Iraq's weapons of mass destruction must continue, despite the resignation of the head of the U.S.-led inspection team in the country.

    "It is becoming really rather undignified for the prime minister to continue to insist that he was right all along when everybody can now see he was wrong," said Robin Cook, who resigned as leader of the House of Commons in March to protest the war in Iraq.

    Michael Ancram, foreign affairs spokesman for the opposition Conservative Party, told the BBC Saturday that Kay's resignation "raises very serious questions about the prime minister and indeed why he told us what he did last year, both before and after the war about weapons of mass destruction."

    The threat posed by Iraq's chemical, biological and nuclear weapons was Blair's main argument for joining the U.S.-led war on Iraq.

    Observers say failure to find any such weapons since the fall of Saddam in April has given fuel to Blair's political opponents and damaged his standing.

    Blair's office said the search for weapons would go on.

    "It is important people are patient and let the Iraq Survey Group do its work," a spokesman told The Associated Press.

    "There is still more work to be done, and we await that. Our position is unchanged."

    Former U.N. weapons inspector Charles Duelfer has been named to take over the 1,400-strong weapons inspection team in Iraq. (Full story)

    Duelfer has recently expressed skepticism that any chemical or biological weapons will be found in Iraq.


    http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/01/24/sprj.nirq.uk.kay/index.html

    Spin on, but the WMD issue will not go away.
     
  20. basso

    basso Member
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    Powell is right on two counts:

    -before the war, Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that they haven't accounted for. if they destroyed them, or they blew away, all Saddam had to do was provide credible documentation of same, and he'd still be ruling ruthlessly from one of his opulent palaces, rather than being a prisoner in one.

    -we don't know what happened to them. with time we may find out, but, kay's comments notwithstanding, at this point we just don't know the answer.

    CASE STILL OPEN.
     

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