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Where are the tax cuts?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Ubiquitin, Feb 8, 2017.

  1. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    One more point toward people trying to paint deducting taxes paid locally and at the state level, if you deduct too much you are going to end up paying the AMT for which almost nothing counts in reducing your taxable income.
     
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  2. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Sounds like what we would call a “loophole”.
     
  3. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    AMT is not a loophole. It’s a plug for people who’d say they gave all their income to charity to avoid paying taxes.
     
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  4. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    Then what is the relevance to state and local taxes?
     
  5. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    AMT is like a flat tax. IIRC after you reach a certain AGI you become AMT eligible. For those eligible, you must pay a minimum tax (% of AGI). Deductions drive whether you drop below this minimum tax percentage. Deducting state income tax is a very large deduction which pushes many into AMT. If you do not live in a state that has its own income tax, you might not experience AMT.
     
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  6. calurker

    calurker Contributing Member

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    http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/29/news/economy/state-and-local-tax-deduction/index.html

    As we have seen over and over again, local politicians are far more vulnerable to voters' wrath for tax increases versus those in Washington. This whole issue about SALT will just end up being more money grab by Washington at the expense of local revenues needed for education and public security. Where are all the (faux) champions of states' rights at? Where's the (faux) outrage?
     
  7. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  8. pirc1

    pirc1 Contributing Member

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  9. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Listening to Paul Ryan pitch this plan and he keeps on talking about the "on average 1,000 dollars a year savings for MOST middle income families".... WTF is he talking about? I see nothing in here that indicates a majority of lower and middle income families getting any type of cut.

    This is a great explanation here of a walkthrough of a family making $120K a year in the most middle income of middle income scenarios.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-tax-plan-raise-taxes-middle-income-families-2017-9

    Their taxes are going UP 600 bucks a year under the GOP plan.

    Even then, lets say this is wrong, and EVERYONE is actually getting 1000 bucks more a year. Its so tone deaf to have a guy who does nothing but represents rich people for a living, sit there and preach to Americans about how great their live will be if only they have another 1000 dollars a year.

    You just have to simply look at the plan itself and see that taxes are actually going UP for low income earners... like we can't just simply look at the tax brackets ourselves. How stupid to Republicans think their constituents are? Say what you want about Democrats, but I just don't understand how any self respecting Republican voter can sit there and love getting talked down to so often like you are the biggest idiot in the world.
     
    #169 dobro1229, Nov 2, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
    Hakeemtheking likes this.
  10. txtony

    txtony Member

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    Separation of church and state?



     
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  11. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    This tax bill seems underwhelming.
     
  12. chrispbrown

    chrispbrown Member

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    #172 chrispbrown, Nov 2, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
  13. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    The corporate tax piece will really help drive American businesses. Especially those competing against international competition. That is huge.

    I hate the caps on the mortgage interest and property tax deductions. Those will both hit me.
     
  14. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Except there is zero evidence since the Reagan years that as corporate profits go up, wages & earnings go up for the middle class. How many times have we been sold trickle down economics from Republicans and how many times has it actually worked?

    If you are going to go down this route again and again at the very least what you can do is something along the lines of what Mark Cuban is proposing which is a contractual agreement with the top 2000 US companies with commitments to invest a large percentage of the earnings they will see from this type of cut to investments in their workforce & investments in the US workforce economy.

    That's such an easy thing to do that would politically make a world of difference in selling this type of trickle down bill but they wont do it. Id argue that corporations when faced with the choice of cuts or no cuts would ultimately sign off on an agreement like this.
     
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  15. bobrek

    bobrek Person, woman, man, camera, TV
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    This article is outdated. It was written under the impression some deductions would go away that apparently won't.
     
  16. B-Bob

    B-Bob my celli weighs a ton
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    We've had years of decreasing taxes in the US, and what have we seen in wages? Total stagnation. That's an oligarchy at work, and the new oligarchy-approved tax plan will just lead to more. Crush the labor part of the market. Lower the cost of it, and increase corporate (and executive) profits.

    This entire tax bill is an enormous pile of dung, and obvious dung. Just an immense theft by the rich and powerful.

    I'll have to sit and run through it, but it still looks as though my household's taxes will go up to finance cuts for dickheads like Two Scoops and Zuckerberg. Great. Feels good man, not.
     
  17. Phillyrocket

    Phillyrocket Member

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    Local governments and states offer tax abatements and other incentives with these types of agreements and claw backs all the time. I 100% agree no more cut the taxes and pray they actually trickle it down. Make it contractual and ensure it gets done.
     
  18. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    NY already gets screwed on the federal level because while we pay a heck of a lot more in federal taxes, our state gets a lot less back relative to these other states you speak of.

    This is just stealing from the middle class to give to the rich. I hope you are rich and are benefiting from this, because otherwise you are stupid.
     
  19. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Forbes is calculating that according to estimates, removing the Estate Tax will save the Trump kids 525 million dollars.

    Just insane that even 25% of Americans are okay with this tax scam.
     
  20. Rocketman1981

    Rocketman1981 Member

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    No person worth 250 million+ pays the estate tax. They use advisers and loopholes and set up charitable foundations and
    trusts and nevada S-corps and Family partnerships and transfer real estate and all kinds of things.

    We have an incredibly complicated system that allows for those individuals and large corporations to exploit.

    The working class first generation wealthy get hit with a huge tax burden as they don't have the wealth but are trying
    to amass it. This safeguards people with large amounts of wealth i.e. Bushes and the Kerry's and the Kennedy's.


    Eliminate these Deductions:

    Charitable Contributions - This whole Charity and Foundation thing seems to be nonsense as well. You made income, pay your taxes and then
    give away all the money you want. Whether your Church, the homeless etc. Many of these charities are scams and
    charitable foundations are slush funds. Pay for the required upkeep of our military, roads and law and then give whatever you want away.

    Mortgage Interest Deduction: Why should the government let you deduct your interest? When people buy homes they think of one
    factor: what is my payment, property taxes, and affect on my taxes through mortgage interest. This produces a monthly amount that
    nearly everyone uses to justify a home purchase. So reducing this will reduce total demand for housing which will drop prices and
    compress margins to where it falls back in line with what people can afford. Its also social engineering trying to get people to buy
    homes which benefits people with more money and forces them to then be stuck in a city that may not have good job prospects.

    State and Local Tax Deduction - Its a subsidy to local governments that are horrible at racking up bills and future pensions and liabilities that will come to fruition well after they are gone. Don't subsidize them.
     

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