When Will They be Pulling the Contractors Off the Roofs of the Green Zone?

...I still don't get why people are obsessed with conventional war with China. China has nukes, America has nukes, end of story. Why they would even wage a convetional war is beyond me.

Its a new age people. AN AGE OF FREEDOM? Nah. An age of nukes. But, it means that we've pretty much seen the last of conventional warfare between the superpowers of the world.

 

I'm not so sure about that. Our military is not designed to be an occupying force within a hostile nation. No military is, nor can they be, because the problem is not primarily military.

The military did just fine in the invasion part of the war - and that is what it was designed for.

 

Congress still has its Constitutional checks and balances in place. Congress still could override vetoes and it still has impeachment powers. Just because the Democratic Congress isn't powerful enough to pull of either doesn't mean we aren't in uncharted waters regarding reigning in the Presidency.

 

Where did I say "one really couldn't compare any country with any other country, right?" I've been to Switzerland several times. As I said, they have a different culture. You see people in uniform with automatic weapons eating lunch, having dinner, waiting for a train, riding on a train, as if it's the most normal thing in the world. The Swiss have maintained their independence all these years not only because of their proclaimed neutrality (see how much good that did Belgium, Denmark, and the Netherlands some decades back), but because they actively work to make their mountainous abode as tough a nut to crack as they can. They have hangers built into mountainsides with highways outside, used everyday by the population, that double a runways. One could go on at length at the steps they have taken, historically, to discourage an invasion.

How often do you see the US military walking around at the mall, shopping, in uniform and in full kit, carrying their weapons? How often do you see them eating at MacDonald's with an M-16? Is that our culture? No. Do you really see us changing our culture to fit that of the Swiss? I don't. As for Israel, how on earth can you compare their situation to ours? And do you really want to compare how Germany mans and operates their military to how we man and operate ours? I really don't think they compare, either.

That is your model. Think of what an incredible disruption it would be if the United States, with 300 million people and the history of having a draft during a previous unpopular war and an unnecessary one, even if better justified than Bush's cockup? One coming directly from his personal decision to invade and occupy Iraq, come what may, regardless of advice not to do so, or if he must, to do it far differently, and presented to the American people in a, to be charitable, dishonest way?

You honestly think they could institute a draft like you propose and all hell wouldn't break loose? I wasn't a little kid during Vietnam. I was an young adult. I think the reaction would be even more profound today than it was then, and that any political party that voted such a system in place would be voted out on it's ass quicker than Bush can fly to Crawford for another "working vacation."



D&D. Geez.

 

i agree, this is hardly a crisis or anything unheard of. But overstatements are fashionable these days and they really help proving a "point"

 

I disagree. Here's Hamilton in Federalist #70 talking about hte character of the Executive...

I would argue Bush pays no attention to the people and is irresponsible.

Hamilton goes on talk about how unity (one guy with the power) is the best thing and then says...

I think that's what we have here... either Cheney is equal or Bush is controlled or some of both.

Hamilton continues...

The Constitution was set up to prevent exactly what we have now and the presumption was that the President would be restrained by public opinion, which is obvioulsy not the case here and to have one person in charge and accountable, which is obviously not the case here.

And don't read Hamilton as saying that every poll should influence the President. In 71 he writes...

Hamilton asumes that the President will be wise enough to be the guardian of the public interest. However, we now have the opposite, where the public is wiser than the President and he is in error and not protecting the interests, but damaging them.

Hamilton in 77...

But Bush is not subjected to the control of the legislative body. From outright ignoring Congress to signing statements that, in his view, void laws to the extraordinary claims of executive privilege to the dismissal of treaties like the Geneva Conventions, this administration is well beyond any excesses of previous ones, including Nixon.

And just as an aside while thinking about the previous six years, the Republican administration and Congress proved Hamilton's 76 to be quite wrong...

 

Then I reiterate my question, what country is similar enough in size and culture that you could legitimately compare it to the US?

It isn't, but it could be.

What if you instituted compulsory military service after the war is over, such that none of the people who serve are sent to Iraq? Then the stigma attached to this war does not affect the policy.

 

Sorry to quote you again, but in realtion to my previous answer, Greenwald writes well, and does a better job of making some of the points I was trying to make... plus, it's relevent to the thread topic...

 

Rimrocker;

I've only had a chance to skim your responses so pardon me for not giving you a fuller response.

The one thing though that I didn't see cited in your responses is where Congress no longer has the impeachment or override power. The fact that Cheney is VP doesn't nullify Congressional check on executive power when Congress can also impeach the VP. Hamiltons warnings are to be heeded but he's not painting a picture where the Constitution is undone but in fact justifying why there is accountability from the other branches built into the Constitution.