Abreu is not worth the money. Plain and simple. He makes way too much money for what he produces on the field. I have no problems spending money to get better, but you can be more productive by spending your money elsewhere. Now, Manny...I'd trade half the team for the guy. Who gives a crap about his attitude or whatever else people like to complain about regarding him. Put him in an Astros uni and we are headed back to the big show.
I have nothing to add to this discussion but I didnt know where else to put this. Is it just me or does dan wheeler look really effeminate?
hold on a second... this statement is simply not true. he pitched well this october, but did give up the slammer to konerko and was awful in last year's playoffs. one thing you did mention, that i completely blanked on, is that abreu is LH. that's big, and i had forgotten that. the fact lane is LH but bats RH is one of the reasons he's not among my favoorites. whoever made the abreu-beltran comparions was right on, IMO, except beltran is younger and plays a more difficult position. i would be open to abreu - in fact, i think i was among the first to mention him on this board when rumor of his availability began floating. but i'm not giving up lidge, i'm not giving up burke, and i'm not paying his full salary. everyone here is welcome to wonder about lidge's mental make-up; that's fair. but if you're going to use it as a basis for trading him, then you simply can't be oblivious to abreu's inexplicable drop-off last year, especially considering it was his first tatse of "postseason" intensity and he bombed. he hit .250 in september with 2 HRs. the astros don't make the playoffs last year with him in place of lane, all numbers being the same.
its irrelevant...the Phils will only take a "top of the rotation" pitcher according to Stark.....they wont even deal him for Manny.
Abreu's numbers, across the board, have been better than Beltran's. Certainly Beltran plays a tougher defensive position and Abreu has plateaued, so I see them as fairly similar. If you could have gotten Beltran on a two year deal at $14MM per, anyone here would have done with it no hesitation. We were looking at a $17MM for 7 years and people were OK with it. So why is this contract so unwieldy? Maybe I misunderstand, but from what I see, there are 2 years left at $13MM and $15MM. No long-term risk whatsoever, and the money is there simply if Roger doesn't demand $18MM or Bagwell is forced to retire. If not, there's no structural increase in payroll over an extended period, making it exactly the type of contract Drayton likes (Kent, Petttite, etc). Except that I'm not using his mental make up as a reason for trading him. I am using the fact that the downgrade there from him to Qualls (or Wheeler if Qualls falters) is much less than the upgrade in RF. I don't imagine *both* of those guys will suck as closers. They all have some questionmarks - Lidge's is how he'll respond to that mess. Ummm, no. As bad as Abreu was, he still drove in more runs in September than Lane, and it wasn't because of more opportunities. It was because last season, as he has his entire career, he hit with people on. Even over the entire dropoff period (post Allstar break), Abreu drove in more runs than Lane. Lane hit behind Berkman and Ensberg, our two best guys at getting on base, so he had plenty of chances. Abreu changes the the entire lineup - Lane does not. It's as simple as that. But regardless, if what NJRocket posted stays true, this whole discussion is moot anyway.
different circumstances. beltran is younger, his best years were ahead; we all had visions of him hitting .400, 50 dingers and making acrobatic catches every night for the next 10 years. drayton couldn't not be in the beltran sweepstakes. he was buying a precious memory. a) roger is going to drain every dime he can from drayton; we all know that - if he was willing to play for less, he would have come out and said so. it would mark the first time in his 88-year career that he's ever done something that was money-driven; b) bagwell is going to play. this notion he'll retire and we'll magically have $18M to spend is a pipe dream. and even if he does retire, he ain't making that decision until the spring, and then collecting the $18M is a little more complicated than, "he retired; the hceck is in the mail!" as far as this offseason is concerned, bagwell is on the payroll. you're playing with fire. dotel was the next great closer before lidge - it is a mentally taxing job and a vital one, especially on a team that doesn't score a lot of runs - knowing you have the 7, 8 and 9 innings covered is a gigantic lift to this team. i'd argue lidge was its MVP last year. it's easy to forget, but the shaky pen was a GIGANTIC problem in the '04 playoffs. if they had the same issues this year, they probably lose to ATL in round one; it definitely goes 5. there's a dynamic and a chemistry to it, and dealing lidge is risking an awful lot. maybe abreu would have been better than lane down the stretch, but neither were more valuable than lidge. i have no worries about lidge. he's pitched a lot of innings the past two years and, i think, was simply wearing down. he should be fine after an offseason of rest. again, i'm all for shipping lane for abreu, but that ain't gonna get it done.
not to beat a dead horse here....but YOU were the one who initially said that Lane was a younger version of Abreu....thats why there are comparisons being flung around....no one is suggesting that Lane could possibly land Abreu....it was Burke and Lidge/Qualls
no, no - that's what we do. younger, cheaper, lighter version of jason lane is what i actually said, and therein lies my frustration - that's based on having to give up lidge. i'm not comparing the two straight up. it's lidge/burke/payroll flexibility vs abreu, and for that, i better get more than .14 more runs a game. otherwise, i'd rather have lane, and i'm not a fan of his at all.
