I don't think he was saying Lane = Abreu... but if you're going to try to upgrade the team, and spend big in doing it (whether it be in $$$, or by trading a top-flight closer)... you want to get somebody who can be the ultimate difference maker. Abreu is solid, and would be an upgrade on this team... but will having him in the everyday lineup be a big enough upgrade to warrant 4 to 5 (maybe more if Qualls completely flops) more blown saves, and less payroll flexibility at mid-season and beyond? Lane gets paid nothing, and he produces decent numbers for what we're paying him. Abreu is owed $14 million... you're not going to get that value back from his production, unless he's going to be a 40-40 guy (which he's not)... and on top of that, you're trading Lidge. I already said I'd trade Lidge for Manny because with Manny, you're guaranteed .300 and 40+ HR's... and then you factor in him playing in a smaller ballpark, and in a division/league with more mediocre pitching across the board and big-time hitters parks like Wrigley (wind blowing out), Cincy, Miller Park... and you can see where you would potentially get a guy who would make a difference. My biggest problem with Abreu is that while he puts up great #'s... his presence in the lineup rarely seems to make others around him better, and he definitely doesn't win you games by himself. I do see that from Lance... he made this entire team better just by being there... he also is the king of clutch.
Lane is also not making $11 million dollars a year to be that. For what we're paying for him, he's one of the best bargains in baseball.
I agree. Lane's a valuable asset because of his dollar figure for this team. I think he could be a .270 and 30 HR hitter for us next year. I don't think he'll ever have a great eye though and will be a low OBP guy. But he is a real value. ManRam's nonsense wouldn't work here. Drayton wouldn't put up with a guy urinating on the Minute Maid scoreboard. Abreu is the type of player that Uncle Drayton likes. Five tool players are rare and a good closer is easy to find. We've gone through Wagner, Dotel, and now we have a shaky Lidge that will be getting a raise. I like Lidge, but I wouldn't mind seeing either Wheeler or Qualls close games for us if we could land Abreu.
you're not trading lane for abreu. the question you should be asking is which combo would you rather have available during a big game; lane/lidge or abreu/qualls? further, are you willing to deal burke? is adding abreu's salary worth risking a shot at clemens?
That makes almost too much sense for both teams... I hope it falls through. Manny-Howard would be the new Manny-Ortiz... except they'd be in the NL.
No kidding....my point is that Lane is not even close to Abreu (salary implications notwithstanding). If you are asking me who I want batting in a tie game...I will take Abreu 8 days a week. If you are asking me who i want pitching in the same game....Lidge. I think that Qualls has a better chance of getting a big out than Lane does of getting a big hit. I would certainly deal Burke ....thats who would go to the bench anyway. As for risking a shot at Clemens.....he isn't going to sign UNLESS we get a bat. We are risking him more by standing pat.
Clemens should be looked at as an exception... if we don't resign him, it won't be because his asking price is too high. Money won't be an issue...
if you're going to deem lidge "shaky" for a rough week that came on the tailend of two extended years of action, then you have to be fair and deem abreu "shakier" after his injury-free, .260/6/44 post all-star performance last year with his team in the wildcard race. he's 31 and makes $infinity/year. you willing to risk lidge, a prospect and payroll flexibility that it wasn't the beginning of the end of bobby?
Closer's confidence can be shattered much easier than hitters. A fair number of closer's who blew big games have had their careers ruined by these events. Will this happen to Lidge? Probably not, but it's a risk. Hitters on the other hand slump all the time. Didn't Ensberg have like 2 HRs during the first half of the 03/04 season?
Is Abreu actually known as a "clutch" player? I always looked at him like another Bagwell/Biggio type, who has great #'s at the end of the year, but never really came through in any particular "clutch" situation of note. Of course, Abreu not having a chance to play in the playoffs could have something to do with that... but then again, why have his teams continually choked/fallen short at the end of regular seasons.... they've been in contenion for the WC nearly every year. I'm still amazed how clutch Lance is, and was in both the 2005 and 2004 playoffs. The way he can flip that HR stroke in MMP, and his huge knock that should have won game 5... its giving me goosebumps all over again.
and yet, he's not so far removed that the upgrade is worth losing lidge. look, i'm by no means a big fan of lane's. i think proclamations of his mgetting better are probably pie-in-the-sky wishes. but... i'm not going to increase payroll by $13M to get a player who isn't $13M better, and abreu simply isn't. the numbers are too similiar. don't be naive. roger is all about the $$$. yeah, he's waiting - he wants to see how much is going to be left over for him. if you think it's about anything else (beyond his own limitations and family influence), you're a sucker. so yeah, adding $14M for a minimal upgrae compromises your chances of having enough $$$ to lure roger back.
i'm not having to pay mo $14M to find out if it was a fluke. nor will lidge cost me that much. quit comparing apples to oranges.
I totally disagree.....he has all but said that the Astros need to go get a bat or 2....then worry about him....he isn't going to sign if we don't add offense.
riiiiiiiiiiiight; like he did last offseason, when the team actually downgraded its offense and turned two key positions over to what were essnetially rookies? $18M made him overlook a lot of shortcomings last winter, didn't it?
You have to compare players to others when talking about trading them for each other. I'm comparing Lidge's blow saves in the playoffs to Byung Hyun Kim, Mark Wohlers, and Mitch Williams. There is a track record of a lingering effect here. Lidge will not be that cheep when he comes up for arbitration with the $10 million per year salaries going around for closers. Abreu will become just as famous as Manny once he puts on a Sox uniform. All he needs is the spotlight to be on him.
was he oblivious to the need? if so, he would have been among the minority. if it were all about getting a bat, why hasn't roger done anything to help out? all he has to do is say, "IF i come back, i'll do so at a much reduced rate to give the astros more money to spend on offense, so don't worry about me - go do what you have to do." he hasn't, and never will. he wants to make sure that IF they go out and get bats, they have enough cash left over to pay him what he wants. it's a classic having and eating your cake scenario. in fact, i'd even argue that the less we spend, the more likely he is to return.
