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When did Germany turn so beta? Criminal inquiry into comedian's joke about Erdogan

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by bigtexxx, Apr 15, 2016.

  1. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Seriously, does free speech not matter any more? Or must it be abandoned if Muslims are involved?

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36055488

    Germany Turkey: Merkel allows inquiry into comic's Erdogan insult

    By law, the government must approve any use of an article of the criminal code on insulting foreign leaders.
    Mrs Merkel stressed that the courts would have the final word.
    And she added that her government would move to repeal the article. Turkey sought the prosecution after President Recep Tayyip Erdogan was mocked.
    Prosecutors will have to decide whether to proceed against comedian Jan Boehmermann, who crudely mocked Mr Erdogan in a poem. If convicted he could face a fine or a prison sentence.
    Some experts say he has a strong defence because his poem could be seen as part of a wider piece of satire about free speech, rather than a deliberate insult, the BBC's Damien McGuinness reports from Berlin.
    An earlier remark by Mrs Merkel that the poem was "deliberately offensive" laid her open to accusations that she was not standing up for free speech because Europe needed Turkey to help solve the migrant crisis.
    Mrs Merkel said the government would seek to repeal Paragraph 103 in the penal code, concerning insults against foreign heads of state.
    She said her government was divided over whether Boehmermann should face prosecution. The comedian was given police protection this week.
    The poem was broadcast by ZDF television two weeks ago. The public TV channel has decided not to broadcast his weekly satire programme this week because of the furore surrounding Boehmermann.
     
  2. Jugdish

    Jugdish Member

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    Huh? Germany doesn't have free speech.
     
  3. AroundTheWorld

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    I am tired of Merkel. I have friends who defend her, but I want her gone.

    Also, that old law is stupid.

    And Erdogan is a goat ****er. Ha...come at me, Erdogan.
     
  4. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    Free speech rights aren't absolute anywhere. In particular, we have restrictions in case of defamation, obscenity, causing panic, etc.

    I can see the logic, at least, in prohibiting people from publicly insulting foreign leaders. It could have national security implications in cases like this where the foreign leader or his peoples are thin-skinned.
     
  5. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Let me guess you are also against drawing cartoons of Mohammed
     
  6. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    So people's speech should be limited because foreign oppressors get offended? Being critical of your own leaders in your countries can have negative implications as well, should it then be controlled?

    I'm not sure that's sound logic. What can Erdogan do if Germany says "sorry, we don't care that you're offended"?

    This criminal investigation is ridiculous. Erdogan's time is up, and everyone should be weary of letting him fester and bring down an otherwise great, developed, progressive country. Him and his peeps are ****ting on everything the Turkish have painstakingly built.
     
  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Merkel needs to go.

    Erdogan needs to go.

    I am surprised that Merkel still has support in Germany.

    Erdogan is just a bad guy.
     
  8. RocketsLegend

    RocketsLegend Member

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    so much white guilt
     
  9. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    Being critical is different from openly taunting someone.

    And I'm not saying I support the law, either. But its not apparent to me that it's fundamentally all that different from the restrictions we already have in place on free speech.
     
  10. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    I understand what you're saying, but I do think that it is substantially different than the majority of restrictions currently in place, and those restrictions are excessive too.

    The problem with these restrictions is that their value disappears once the person protected by it starts using against it in reverse. What happens when Erdogan starts taunting Germans? Is Erdogan going to legally demand restraint from people supporting his opinion?

    In Erdogan's particular case, he has an unreasonable expectation of not being criticized, that is incredibly apparent in his treatment of journalists and political opponents.

    Perhaps one side of this argument that's alien to those living in countries with more progressive protections is: sometimes, the people of a country need their neighbours and other foreign citizens to come to their assistance, in areas where they are oppressed. If Erdogan is appeased, we may find Turkey living in a state of being even MORE incapable of being critical of him. You will find that the huge majority of Turkish people are cheering for this video, and are inspired by it - as long as it is not produced or created by the State. You might find, that this kind of thing engenders stronger relations between Turkish people and German people on a human level, which has tremendous intangible value. It's a relationship that has been under assault by Erdogan, his peeps as well as to a lesser extent Merkel and SEVERAL influential people in the German government.

    IMO this action has not impeded anyone else's freedom, it would be a dangerous standard to set for speech. IMO it's not equivalent to restrictions related to mass panic. It is similar to restrictions related to obscenity, which are antiquated restrictions that are rarely enforced anyway.
     
  11. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    Germany has always had stronger laws on speech than America. Most countries do. Try denying the Holocaust and see what happens to you there.

    I did LOL at the beta-calling in the title. Those betas and their different legal reasoning.
     
  12. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    Bit of a mess she's brought upon herself.
     
  13. Joshfast

    Joshfast "We're all gonna die" - Billy Sole
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    Will someone call Germany's parents and tell them they are getting bullied at school by the kids in the special ed class?
     
  14. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    I, personally, am all for the creation of Jesus and Mohammed cartoons.

    "The Cult Leader and the Slave Trader".

    "Superbad, Part 2"

    "What happens in San Francisco stays in San Francisco?"

    I'd donate money for each to be made.

    I guess that is the difference between Alpha America and Beta Germania.
     
  15. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    WTF are you babbling about?
     
  16. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    How you turned a potentially interesting topic into The Game by Neil Strauss.

    Don't act so uppity though, it's all in good fun :p
     
  17. arno_ed

    arno_ed Contributing Member

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    Wow terrible. This is a idiotic law.
     
  18. AroundTheWorld

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    Once again trying to act as if two different things are the same.
     
  19. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    what? one is a cult leader and the other is a slave trader. Those are two different things.

    But this is off-topic--to stay on topic: when did Germany turn so beta?
     
  20. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    It's specifically a law about insulting a foreign leader.
     

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