First of all, NOTHING is clear about the two players after a few preseason games. However, you want to have a good contrast on your team. After Hakeem retires, Collier will be our backup center, and when you consider Cato's game, he is the perfect compliment to him. After dealing with Cato for the majority of time in the game, it will be a great contrast to have Collier's offense pulling opposing centers out of the lane. He also really opens up the lane for Steve and Cat, and can really rebound. I'll take the rare commodity of a guy that is a great chemistry pick over another defensive shot-blocker. ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
The Cat-My thinking is that we TRADE Cato if we have Pryz... They are essentially the same player (strong D, limited O)... With Przy being at abou 1.5 mill or so for the next 4 years, and Cato being locked up at 7 mill for the next 6 years or something, I think we could trade Cato to the Suns or Knicks for anybody who is cap friendly... That 5 mill or so dollars saved would then help us towards getting Webber next season, assuming he opts for FA... I am basing Pryz's strengths and weaknesses not only on the preseason games, but what the "gurus" said about him during the draft time, and also what he did at Minnesota... Therefore, my opinions regarding Pryz go back 2 years... Not just 3 games... Ditto for Butterbean... Like I said before, Europe is stacked with 6 ft 10 to 7 ft tall guys who can shoot lights out ie. Mirsad Turckan, Richard Petruska... But if you can tell me that we can get a great shot blocker from the streets, I wouldn't believe you... ------------------
The gurus can make any player sound like a potential superstar. Go back and read some of the profiles for these players. You don't know anything about a player based on reading 4 box scores and listening to some dumb anaylsts. (And by the way I was very impressed with Pryz's 0 points last night in the starting lineup) Pryz has some potential- I'll give you that. But he is extremely raw and is not very athletic at all. Cato isn't just a shotblocker. He's a perfect fit for this team with his athletism, speed, etc. (look at how good he does on the back door alleyoops) And the way Cato was working out with CD ALL summer, no way they'd trade him. Cato is a proven commodity who has big upside (I think a WHOLE lot more than Pryz's) and is a great fit with the team. Pryzbilla is an extremely raw center with much less offense than even Cato. That plan I think would spell disaster. We probably won't get Webber- face it. We might even be better off long haul with Mo anyway. You don't go from Cato to Pryzbilla, knowing all the things we do about Cato, to save maybe 4 million on the cap. I'd much much much rather have Cato, Collier, and the pick than Pryzbilla and whatever Phoenix/New York would give for Cato. (And no, getting guys like Allan Houston, Shawn Marion, etc. would NOT happen, so don't start giving me examples of unrealistic players) ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
The Cat: Croshere wasn't as bad as you claim... he mainly didn't get any playing time initially because the Pacers were such a deep veteran team... with Mullin's decline, Croshere gained some minutes. I will buy your argument that Croshere certainly wasn't the player he is now... but he still had some of that athleticism, etc. ------------------ Shandon Anderson rocks. The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
Can you tell honestly tell me that the Rockets play good defense? If you do, then you're dead wrong because we were one of the worst defensive teams in the league last season... Let's face it, Francis and Mobley are below average defenders, Anderson is decent, Williams is horrible... Dream can barely move, let alone play D anymore... On this team, I would take defense anyday over jump shooting... Collier will never play a role that is any larger than the role that Bullard plays for us... Collier is more of a decoy than an actual threat... Once teams realize that, his contribution will be limited to waving towels and cheering the team on, ala Jack Haley... Instead of drafting Collier, couldn't we have gotten Joe Wolf out of retirement? He can stretch out the defense... And from his days as an Orlando Magic, he would know the secrets to stopping Shaq... ------------------
Maybe I just watched him on a couple of bad days or something- it didn't look like he had much athletism to me. I'll take your word on it though. ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
I never said that Pryz had athleticism... But I sure as hell know that Collier doesn't... Since you like to compare Collier to Croshere, I guess I'll compare Pryz to Kevin McHale... McHale had little to no athleticism... Same with Pryz... See the connection? While, Collier will turn into the next Croshere, Przy will be a McHale waiting to happen... ------------------
Decent defensively? I'd say phenomenal. One of the best defensive SGs in the game. And Francis and Mobley both have worked very hard on their defense, and Dream should be over his breathing problem. Then explain how Sam Perkins has played so much the last few years in that role? He is not the rebounder he once was and his defense has really deteriorated. If Perkins can fill that role, why can't Collier? ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
I saw Pryzbilla play the Knicks last nite in preseason. He's just as bad as Collier, but in different ways. For one thing, his offense is so limited he can barely make a layup and he shoots 50% FT's. He did, however, show good defensive instincts and quick feet. Regardless, I'm not saying we should've drafted Pryz, I was all for getting Desmond Mason, Etan Thomas, or even DeShawn Stevenson. Some may argue that Mobley would've balked had we drafted a 2 guard, but at worst we still would have had a tradeable commodity. Collier won't even make a good ballboy. And by the way, Collier is by no stretch of the imagination a good rebounder. People can bring up his college stats and the such, but in the NBA he won't be snaring any rebounds off of anybody. ------------------
You're comparing a 40 yr old Perkins to a 22 year old Collier... That alone shows how little potential Collier has... If Collier can be as as good as a 40 yr old Perkins, I guess Rudy got a gem huh? ------------------
No, actually you don't. I watched both players in college, and IMO Collier is more athletic than Pryzbilla. I didn't say Collier would be the next Croshere. I was just showing the simularities and saying why players careers aren't over after 4 preseason games. If you think that about Pryzbilla- fine, I have no problem with it. I don't agree right now, but nothing is out of question. NOTHING. I could care less what Pryzbilla does right now- all I'm trying to say by the Croshere stuff is that Coller's career is not over and he is not a bust. If Pryzbilla has a chance to be McHale, Collier can be like Croshere. Do I think that will happen? No. But if Pryz has a chance, so does Jason. ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
The Cat: You're right... Anderson has phenomenal defense. Kidrock... you're *far* overstating Pryzbilla's talents. He'll be steady defensively immediately, but on offense... probably worse than Collier. I'd rather have Pryz than Collier... but let's face it... at this point, either could have the better career... and Collier certainly has a better shot. I can't manage to pick a side here . BTW, about croshere... he has bulked up... he just wasn't as bad as you made him out to be his first year. The rookie Croshere would have gotten substantial playing time on last years edition of the Rockets. ------------------ Shandon Anderson rocks. The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
You still haven't answered my question regarding what's harder to find... A good shooter or a good shotblocker?? I would appreciate your answer... ------------------
Here we go again. You don't KNOW anything. And I do think 4 years of college stats in rebounding is more important than 4 preseason games. Are you stupid or something? I wasn't trying to compare the PLAYERS. I was simply contesting the fact that the role of bringing the big man out of the lane with the outside shot is NOT dead, as you said it was. That doesn't say anything at all Coller being as good, worse, or better than Perkins. I made no comparison between the players. ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
I would rather have a great chemistry pick with an outside shot and rebounding skill at center than a shotblocker with no offense or shooting ability at all, yes. ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Uh, what Collier did in his 4 years in college, has 0 bearing to what he has done so far in the NBA... I'll take the preseason games over what he did against guys 4 inches shorter than him... I guess you're gonna bust out his HS stats to prove your point now? Unfortuanately, the internet wasn't a big thing when Collier was dominating his peers at Shipleys HS... Therefore, I don't think you'll be able to get his HS stats... I'm sure they are impressive though... ------------------ [This message has been edited by kidrock8 (edited October 19, 2000).]
The Cat-How do you know he is a chemistry pick? He has "played only 4 games"... Try not to contradict yourself... Pryz is a more efficient rebounder BTW... ------------------
The ACC is about the top conference in the country. Almost all big men are around Collier's size. And somehow I think 100 games of college are bigger factors than 4 in the NBA preseason, esp. when he doesn't get enough minutes to really get into a rhythm... ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
kidrock: you're not going to win an argument that it's not important to draw the big man out. That strategy will be essential for the Rockets in the future, with their loaded backcourt. I wouldn't waste my breath arguing otherwise... personally, I just don't think Collier is the person to do this. ------------------ Shandon Anderson rocks. The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
Then why couldn't he outrebound Collier in college? Pryz is actually bigger than Collier, so by your "size" reasoning he should have gotten 10 a game. Looking at quotes directly from Rudy T and when you analyze Collier's game (yes I have seen him a lot) you can get a feel for whether a player will be a good chemistry pick or not. You could be wrong, but you do get a feel. ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
