we could try givin kt some magic shoes that make him 7' then he'd be the 7' center/3pt shooter we need ------------------ "Wahooo"-homer
I'd have to say I was entirely suprised and disapointed when we chose Pryzbilla. I would have gone for Moiso but I was upset we couldn't get DJ or Mike Miller. If you notice it Rudy tends to like to draft 4 year players and if you look you'll see he has a very good record except for Turkcan over Lewis. So if the Bucks offered the 15 for our 9 with a 1st rounder next year I'd consider it. And when you consider the role that Collier can fill in making our penetrating offense more effective by pulling the big guys outside or else Collier can fill it up with the good range then he's valuable behind Cato. Will Collier have to lose a little baby fat and develop some more strength and quickness to help himself defensively? Yes. A crossover dribble drop step pump fake fly by slam and 1 is not gonna be the main thing in Colliers repetoire. But Steve and Cuttino are gonna have those plays working at a better percentage rate when Colliers in the game. In a way my biggest hope for Collier is that he would be as good as Raef LaFrentz in a backup role to Cato next year. I also happen to think Pryzbilla is no good offensively and won't ever be and his defense is not that great really. Basically he left Minnesota not having tried hard or learned much. Completely leaving his team in the lurch. He is a "Big Country" in waiting without the skill level or heart. While Collier at least has a decent stroke on his Jumper and will care about working on his game, JP will be a continued disgrace. Just my personal belief though. ------------------ ***Elie... we don't need no stinkin Elie Mobley's takin over ROCKETS IN 2000 BABY***
Collier will never be 20% as effective as Raef LaFrentz. Within 2 months every Rockets Fan will be cursing the fact that we'll have 2 more years of Collier's contract on our cap with zero chance of any other team taking him off our hands unless we do a trade straight up for say, Frederic Weis. ------------------
It's good to know you can tell everything about a player after a few preseason games. Hell, it even took Austin Croshere, who actually had a lot of simularities to Collier coming out of college, two years of doing nothing and then he explodes. Could you honestly tell me after his first few preseason games you thought he would be as good as he is? After his 2nd season in the league? I'm pretty damn sure you can't. And he was a 4 year college player too. Croshere (and a TON of other players, just using Croshere as an example right here) played in the opinion of most AWFUL for his first two seasons in a row, and then turned into a $51 million man. And for the record, people complained about Croshere many of the things you guys complain about Collier now. Not enough quickness. Too much "baby fat". (When he was drafted yes that was the case) Not to say that I personally think that is true about Collier, it's just those are the main complaints I've witnessed. So while Croshere could go through 2 seasons like this (and other players lots more) and obviously be an impact player, why should Collier be written off after a few preseason games? You may think Collier will be a bust, and if you think that, fine. Nothing I can say. It is, however, extremely irritating to read these mindless posts by people who supposedly already know for a fact he'll never do this, this, etc. I'm about Collier's biggest supporter on this board. But even I will admit that like any rookie, he could be a bust. I think he'll succeed, but I don't know that at all. I just wish some of you would stop acting like you know everything about how a player's career will unfold and the likewise after a few preseason games. Relax- let him grow in the system and get acclamated to the offense and to the NBA. It's going to take him a little time I admit. But he will get there IMO. (Also, for anyone ready to snap back with something like "A first rounder shouldn't take time", well Pryzbilla is too... there's a reason he's not even starting for the center-less Bucks) I just wish some of you would stay away from the "Collier sucks, he has no future" posts for a while, at least until you give him some time to see what he can do. (And no, the rest of the preseason doesn't count, and no, you do not already know that he can't do anything) Just preparing myself with those last statements from the typical non-knowledgeable jumping the gun posts that I know are coming. ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
You're really sticking your neck out in this thread Cat! I just wanted to point out that Ervin Johnson might be the best (healthy) center in the Eastern Conference. So Pryz might be playing behind an all-star! Collier won't get 3 years to make it with the Rockets. Rudy doesn't have that kind of patience. All I want to see out of him are those things he came billed as already being able to do: rebound, and shoot the long J. I agree that the preseason doesn't necessarily tell the story about players. But it does tell me something about the coach, when our rookies hardly play (and play poorly when they get in the games). It means to me that neither will be in the rotation, at least to begin with. ------------------
hey cat good argument but i still kind of think the guy sucks... i want to be wrong though.. ------------------ I think people are forgetting that we are the rockets... WE DONT REBUILD...WE RELOAD....remember that.. [This message has been edited by sirhangover (edited October 19, 2000).]
Sam, When it's you vs. practically the whole BBS, it ends up that way a lot. With how bad the centers are, Johnson moves up somewhat, but he still has very little offensive game, and I'd rather have Ratliff, Campbell, Camby, and even Amaechi off the top of my head. I do think Rudy knows the types of players he has, and while they may not get 3 years, I don't think he'll try and rush them and thorw them into the fire right away. I do think he'll bring them along slowly, and then eventually give them their chance to "put up or shut up." Hopefully by that point Collier is ready. Sirhangover, Thanks. I don't mind people saying that they're disappointed in how he's playing- he's not exactly ripping things up I know. Just wish more fans could be a little like you and be more open-minded and give him a chance before writing his career off. ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Who cares about having the Bucks pick next year? It will be in the 20-23 range anyway next year... I guess we can use that for another Collier huh? Rudy found this bum at a pie eating contest is my bet... ------------------
Kidrock: I'm an admitted critic of this deal but... even if the draft pick is in the 20-23 range, it still might be a good deal. Last year was an admittedly shallow draft, and next year is supposed to be an *extremely* deep draft. It's entirely possible that a player at #20 next yearwill be *better* than a player at #9 this last time... this would make Collier a throw in, quite frankly... anything he does is gravy. I don't like the deal... but it's not as bad as your portraying it to be. ------------------ Shandon Anderson rocks. The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
Hmmm.....Is that so? Maybe, maybe no.... (The new catch phrase of the Clutch BBS) ------------------ Francis out top, 9 seconds on the clock, he gives a no look pass to Cuttino Mobley, 4 seconds left, Mobley passes to an open Langhi in the corner with 1 second left! Langhi at the buzzer.......YES!!! How Sweet It Is!!
Two things. Have you ever heard of Cuttino Mobley? He was pick 41. And Kenny Thomas was pick 22. Shandon was pick 54. There's 3 big parts of our team that were drafted 22 or later. Also, next year's draft is considered to be one of the deepest drafts in history, so a 20-23 pick is MUCH more valuable next year than it has been in year's past. ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
First off, Austin Croshere is by no means a great player and undoubtedly does not deserve a $51M contract. The kid got lucky playing against an out-of-position Robert Horry in his last showing and had everybody bidding on him in big-man thin free agent market this summer. That being said, Collier will never, ever ever ever be as effective as Croshere. Collier isn't nearly as mobile and doesn't have the same range on his shot. He also has a 5 inch vertical and very poor defensive instincts. And the way Rudy claims he will play Collier vs. Shaq to spread the floor on offense is a complete joke. Even if we do that, at best Collier will make 50-60% of his open jumpers. Shaq will dunk on him at a 98% clip. ------------------
The Cat-Do you really want more younger players??? If the Rockets are to be close to title contenders in 2001-2002, wouldn't you want vet players like a younger Charles Oakley or something to that extent? I feel that right now, a 23rd pick wouldn't be anything more than the 10th man on the roster... We're stacked with young prospects... I'd like to see us trade our draft picks for a PJ Brown type player... Or any hard working vet who can play D... ------------------
Those were EXACTLY the same complaints Pacers fans had with Croshere his first two seasons. Croshere was successful all season and will continue to be by the way. He's better than anything the draft could have given you except for maybe the top 4. If Croshere could rebound from those areas that Pacer fans considered him lacking in (and they were pretty much the exact same) why can't Collier? And by the way, if you've EVER watched Collier in college you'd know he actually has more range on his shot than Croshere, and for a big man is actually very mobile. ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Kid Rock, while I do think having a veteran next year after Dream retires would be nice (off the bench), those are hard to get these days. It took Toronto the #5 pick in the draft just to land Antonio Davis a couple of years back. What we were discussing is why the deal is good for the Rockets, and Pryz is a very young player as well. A veteran on the team would be nice. But that's another story. We were simply discussing whether we would rather have Collier and the pick next year or Pryzbilla, and I personally would rather have Collier and the pick. ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com [This message has been edited by The Cat (edited October 19, 2000).]
The Cat: Collier is slower, less mobile, etc than Croshere. Croshere isn't much shorter, and is *much* more athletic than Collier. Collier yas *yet* to prove he can hit the 3 at NBA range, consistently. Collier has yet to show he can play better than abysmal defense. Collier has yet to show he has any moves in the post. Collier has yet to show that he can rebound... and he hasn't even show *hints* of these things in the RMR and preseason. Blah... he has to prove he can shoot. If he can do that, I think we'll all be happy . ------------------ Shandon Anderson rocks. The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
Haven- right now I see where you are coming from. However, I was comparing Collier to Croshere in his FIRST year in the league. And if you didn't see Croshere in his first year, he looked pretty bad. If you had had him in his first year, you would be all over him twice as much as you are Collier. He developed that mobility, quickness, and athletism by working out, losing weight, etc. between his 2nd and 3rd years in the league. People had the same complaints about him early on as so many of you have about Collier. ------------------ Looking for next year's Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
The Cat-What happened to the "defense wins championships" mentality?? It's clear that Pryzbilla provides much more of a defensive presence under the basekt than the Jelly man... You can find all sorts of 7 ft tall shooters in Europe if you want... I'll take the rare commodity of a center who can block shots and rebound... ------------------
Give up on bashing Collier....he's gonna get garbage minutes anyway....he will be a good fit for this team, as Rudy loves guys who can stretch the D. All I'm saying is the front court consists of Cato, Dream, Mo Taylor, KT, and Carlos. Find the minutes for Collier, and for that matter anybody else in the draft excluding a top 5 draft pick. Besides Collier is good and one day will be a player ------------------
