When are we going to start criticizing Rafael Stone?

Jabari is better than Mobley. Mobley is just playing with 2 all star playmakers, Jarett Allen and is older.

 

He is crushing on efficiency stats cuz all he does is layups. Mobley got all the all star mentions because the Cavs turn around happened in his rookie year...while he contributed to that, most of the credit fell on Darius Garland, Jarett Allen and that dude on the Jazz.

I guarantee you Mobley would get 0 all star mentions on this team. On an alternate world you would prob be asking to get Stone fired for picking bust Mobley over Jaylen Green.

Whats funny to me is you call Jabari a high end role player when he is a 3nD. Mobley is just a D but he is supposed to be a star? Mobley cant even shoot 3s and just relies on gimmes from everyone else. Even on defense he just supplements Jarett Allen lol.

 

Lol, i don't know why you picked tonight to go with the Jabari Jalen is a star routine but it's... Not a great night for it

I agree Evan Mobley's progress on offense has def. stalled but, man Green and Smith look like hot garbage. I think if you called up Koby Altman and offeed both pkayers for Mobley he'd still laugh and hang up.

If you really want to do comparisons, do Wagner / Banchero vs Green/Smith. Have a therapist on standby though

 

Who cares if they look like garbage they are 20 and 19 yr olds vs Mobley who is 21. Point is all 3 are too young to know what they would be like in the future all you want to see are flashes and Jalen and Jabari have those flashes of greatness. I dont care what Altman thinks dude has helmed a franchise that picked Anthony Benett, Tristan Thompson and Dion Waiters. Its not like they know talent unless it is smacking them in the face. Fact is Mobley is playing well cuz he is on a stacked team, on our team he would look like a bust and CF would have a meltdown cuz they would say we picked a role player who cant score. Garuba is supposed to be an elite defender, Mobley would be like him on this team. You hear those all star nods for Garuba? I dont either.

We all know Banchero is supposed to be our guy so why would I need a therapist? He wasnt available its not like Rox picked Jabari over Banchero and besides Banchero also smokes Mobely so there goes your argument. Why not compare Jalen to Cade and Jabari to Chet? Both dudes were rated higher than Jalen and Jabri and both are gonna be held back drastically by their season ending injuries. Cade even put up a garbage season before he went down and Chet blew out his leg after Lebron breathed on him too hard. At least our guys are healthy.

 

I swear people just don't watch the cavs and assume Mobley ia great because he's a starter for them.

He benefits from playing with a great squad. Mobley has almost no offensive game whatsoever.

 

Because there are recent examples of players the same age that don't look like **** and offer hope for the future. Banchero, Ball, Zion etc.

Green looks horrendous, but i hold out hope due to his obvious atletic ability.

Smith looks unathletic and slow (for the NBA) it frankly is amazing to me that he was ever even discussed as a #1 pick. Could be a nice 3&D player some day but it doesn't seem like the things thaf are keeping him from being a franchise player are things you just magically get at age 22.

And just, i can't even begin to can't with the Mobley-Garuba comparison. Sorry, i can't tonight

 

Yeah he's basically Garuba hahaha, we should trade him for Garuba

 

No Stars at all some nice role players tho.

Jabari's dad went 2nd round pick 45 that draft

 

Does anyone think that an experienced consultant, like Jerry West Warriors/Clippers would be a good idea? Kind of a GM whisperer? Just a fresh set of experienced eyes to help evaluate the roster from top to bottom, the coaching, style, system. Someone with no emotional ties to anyone on the team or coaching staff.

This is a huge off season for establishing the future direction of this team. I hope that ownership has at least thought about this.

 

Unless that experienced GM has extra lottery balls it probably won't make a difference. Not that the current Stonetitta cabal is especially y good.

Most of this stuff is just dumb luck - Orlando picked busty Suggs at 4 and then eventually got Wagner - who, right now, is arguably the best 2021 draftee, after the Warriors went for Kuminga.

They nearly galaxy brained themselves into taking Jabari over Paolo the next year then changed course at the end and got what appears to be a true star.

This was all just randomness , not some mystical genius telling them what to do.

We need to hire some good randomness

 

If Jabari is slow and athletic you'd think he'd be front runner as no 1 pick? Do you even remember a time that has ever happened? People have been wrong with who is no 1 but I dont recall them being wrong on ahleticism, esp since Jabari played an entire college season's worth. Even with the biggest bust of all time Anthony Benett people werent wrong about his athleticism it was everything else that was the issue not his athletic ability.

Maybe you dont see Jabari as a franchise player down the road thats cool but then why do you see Mobley as a star then? Dude does half of what Jabari does. The difference like I said is he gets gimmes from his 2 All star playmakers and he can feed off his All star center on defense. Take all those away and he is Garuba. Actually Garuba scores on his own more than him. 73% of Mobley's pts are assisted lol and this is him being open all day cuz Garland and Mitchell get all the attention.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mobleev01.html
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/garubus01.html

.

 

I criticize the hell out of the Jalen-KPJ backcourt…as a function of development. I don’t think it’s been good for Green. I do think it’s probably a good thing for KPJ on the long run. And as I am pro tank, I don’t care about losing the games. I do care about playing well in those games and seeing growth. I think Stone got it wrong on developing jalen so far, but I think the bigger picture is that he’s gotten it wrong on culture. No accountability and no selflessness in the team leadership.

 

You just got KPJ taking accountability and getting roasted for it on the other thread what the hell are you talking about exactly?

 

I honestly can't understand it either but he looks very slow to elevate by my idiot amateur eye test and when i read scouts/evaluators like Vecenie, Hollinger, Givony etc they say "man he can't create separation and seems way slower than we thought" it matches up so im inclined to believe my eyes here.

As for Garuba - Mobley comparison - no, just no

 

Can you say how a GM consultant would have made moves different from Stone without some kind of crystal ball?

Even with hindsight I would pick Green over Mobley. Unless you got a mole in Orlando FO I doubt you would know they would steal Paolo after gaslighting Jabari all year. The other picks like Sengun, Tate, KPJ, KJ, Eason etc have been money. Like was a GM consultant supposed to know he should trade down from Jaylen and Jabari and pick up Wagner and Mathurin? Unless you can see the future I think Stone did as good a job as possible under the circumstsnces.

 

Mobley cant get separation as well. Jabari scores on his own more than Mobley. Maybe if Jabari had defensive ace Allen covering for him instead of Sengun he wouldnt look so slow. Kinda hard to cover for 2 people.

Mobley isnt even particularly good on finishing on his gimmes. Mobley only has 59% TS but his teammate Allen has 65% TS and they are both short range big men getting gimmes from their teammates. All Mobley can do is open dunk and lay up and he cant finish as good as Allen, is that good separation ability? I dont think so.

 

I have no issue with the picks. My issue is more with the rest of the roster. Rotations, scheme and most importantly to me who stays and who goes. Honestly when I heard him talk about Nix during summer league I have been concerned since. I like Tate's hustle and energy but Stone recently described him as a "core" piece. Forcing KPJ into a position that he may not be best suited for. Allowing Nix and Matthews to continue to get PT over Ty Ty and Christopher. I could go on. But those are my core concerns. Before I spend a dime in free agency or make another foolish trade I just want to make sure that we don't f this off season up. Too many things at play to be messing around.

 

We have over 60 mil in cap space. The draft isn't my concern. I expressed my thoughts in a previous post.

 

Jalen is averaging over 20 points a game only in his second year and he is a better defensive players than last year. NBA players who can average 20 points a game are called young stars, it’s hard to average 20 point a game. With a better point guard and KPJ as a 6th Man he will be averaging close to 30 in two years. Bancheros is a Star, Wagner is a good players but have no elite skills. Sengun is a Star player who can average 20 points and 10 rebounds but his coaches is hurting his development not foul troubles. Jabari has elite skills and he needs a point guard to help him.

 

Jalen is a superstar
Sengun is a star
Jabari has elite skills

Yet somehow the worst team in the league. How is that possible? Btw lmao at downplaying Wagner yet upselling Jabari and Jalen who are not even close to the player Wagner is right now. Wagner is averaging 20 on way better efficiency, better playmaking and way better defense. If he has no elite skill, what does Jalen have?