When are we going to start criticizing Rafael Stone?

Yup. Maybe people think progress looks like getting 1% better in a linear fashion without any bumps, setbacks, or issues.

 

Not that crazy. The PHX win was when the suns were at half strength and at the end of a 5 game road skid.

The only real aberration was Milwaukee.

It's not just that the Rockets are losing to crappy teams lke the Spurs that are intentionally trying to lose - it's the manner in which they're losing.

Coming out nonchalant, expecting to win, as if they're actually better than anybody and then pretty much surrendering in teh 3rd period. The Spurs are terrible and tried - tried very hard, to give the Rockets a double digit lead last night and they couldn't take advatage.

Alos, our theoretical franchise cornerstone Green has looked like absolute dogshit for all of Dec. save 1 game vs. Milwaukee and 1 period of 1 game @ Phx. That makes me wonder - maybe he's just young, but maybe he's also, not that good?

 

This whole team is a clusterfk. Coming to terms with that for this season will go a long way for mental health. Some guys have already lost their damn minds and think they know more than NBA coaches and GMs via the most obvious amatuer observations. It is definitely crazy time and sadly its only going to get worse.

 

If the Rockets were playing like Orlando who is mostly losing (notwithstanding beating the celtics twice) but Banchero looks like a future superstar and the roster is just devoid of guards then I'd be more optimistic.

But this team has been tanking for 3 years and it's unclear if they have anything to show for it other than some luxury role players and a maybe star who can't currently shoot.

 

This team has been in rebuild since 2021 with Jalen, Sengun, JC. Add last years 4 rookies. Thats 7 first round rookies in two years. You cant say with a straight face that the post Harden year with Wall and Oladipo was a tank because there were no other options! It was a mad scramble when Harden demanded out. Best thing these guys can take away is experience and the hope that chemistry can build. Some nights its pretty cool. Nights like last are ugly AF. Im sure the roster we see now will be unrecognizable to the team that makes the playoffs. The bad fits will go up to and including guys like KPJ or Jalen if they dont get it together. This team has loads of cash to go find a more proven commodity and it looks like that is the route they will need to take if the youngsters continue to regress. Its not an exact science and using X amount of time as the window for it to happen isnt a constant for every different rebuild.

Banchero was probably the best prospect to come out of the last 3 drafts combined If not more. Using him as a comp for this team and these prospects isnt really apples to apples.

 

I am not saying all lawyers, solicitors, attorneys at law are blurring the truth but it makes sense that his background was that he came from the legal field.

He is trying the best for his clients but lawyers are not necessarily dealmakers..

Him and Silas seem to be salesmen.

 

Professional Salespeople in corporate America do not operate the way Stone does. Morey has a sales background, and carries himself much more like it. Stone comes off as a cocky lawyer. I do know quite a few who think they are above following a professional sales methodology, and come off as jerks to anyone that isn't their client already.

Back to back at the deadline we had Stone obviously trying to manipulate the market by making promises his a$$ couldn't and didn't end up cashing with Oladipo and then EG. That is amateur hour all day long.

Maybe he'd get lucky and fool everyone once, but you won't fool everyone all the time. Stone probably has no trust with his colleagues now, and no respect which means he is WAAAAYYYY less likely to have the sales funnel built up of prospective deals that he needs to have in order to make the deals needed to rebuild this team. Agents are less likely to put the clients in front of him first this Summer in free agency as well.

It seems like a small thing to folks here I'm sure, but with the way that professionals operate in 2022, I'm telling you guys, Stone is now a liability. Being a good GM likely has alot to do with trust with his clientele (which is other GM's). The more trust you have with your clients, the better discovery/conversations you have. The more conversations you have, the more deal opportunities you'll have in the pipeline.

It's not that difficult of a formula, and I just know that Stone isn't putting the team in the best position to have the best potential deals in the pipeline. And we'll need those deals very very soon because next year all bets are off, and we need to be changing direction from tanking to winning very very fast.

 

Even Morey didn't have the connections around the league like Ainge.

 

It's not even necessarily about "connections." He's one of 30 GM's. Every other GM is going to pick up the phone when he calls.

What does matter is the quality and depth of the conversations he is having when the other side picks up the phone. If you have no trust & credibility, then you won't have a partner on the other end that'll feel comfortable sharing more than surface level information with you.

That's what professional selling is all about in 2022 despite the reputation that people outside of the profession think. You get nowhere in sales long term selling snake oil, and you'll be stuck selling toy dogs at the kiosk at the Mall if you make promises you can't deliver.

I'll be honest that I cannot stand Tillman, but I do know that he has enough experience in C-level type of professional sales discussions/meetings/presentations to be able to know if Stone is a good salesperson or if he is an unqualified cocky lawyer who sucks at sales. Tillman won't be patient forever if Stone is as bad as I think he might be.

 

Could Jalen Green or Jabari Smith be traded today for Banchero, Mobley, or Scottie Barnes? Probably no.

Jalen's on the level of a Franz Wagner right now. Smith is a high end 3&D player.

That's a not great ROI for 2 league worst seasons.

 

Lol how is he Franz Wagner, oh you meant both likely future All Stars.

I do think Franz has the advantage that the Orlando environment with Banchero would be paying more dividends than Houston does for Jalen.

 

I mean they're basically posting identical numbers in their second season.

 

I dont disagree, but not every young player will develop in a convenient timeframe. Paolo was NBA ready before he laced them up in the league. Franz is also another underrated young player that was ready for the league day 1 - modern big with 3 point range, handle and decent defense. Jabari and Jalen both had glaring issues and players that most understood would need some time to develop. If you take a stroll over to the CLE side of things they say similar things we say about Sengun!!. Role playing big that most heralded a "unicorn". Didnt help him to be in another guard attack offense that landed one of the premier uber efficient guards in Mitchell. https://realcavsfans.com/index.php?...r-defensive-player-of-the-year.50957/page-305

Would you trade Sengun for Mobley straight up?

The draft is not an exact science unfortunately. With that said the book hasnt been finished about either Jabari or Jalen.

 

To be fair, in a Durant trade to Toronto, I doubt Toronto does that deal if Barnes has to be included. Mobley, Banchero, and Barnes are as close to untoucheable as you can find around the league unless it's a Giannis, Jokic, level superstar.

At this point we just don't know whether Jalen or Jabari or going to be superstars or JUST really good. The league right now just assumes the other 3 guys ARE DEFINITELY going to be superstars.

However if there was a team that was put in a situation where they had to trade their superstar player for whatever reason, if they netted either Jalen or Jabari in that deal as the centerpiece that team would be pretty thrilled to get either guy. Especially Jabari who I think has a much higher floor.

Stone hasn't killed it in the draft by any stretch, but he at least didn't strike out with Jalen or Jabari. Both guys were decent picks for him so far. I'm far less worried about him as a GM for the draft as I am about him being a good GM for trades, free agency, and managing the coach.

 

I do think Barnes is the odd man out of the 3 and a guy like Mathurin/Haliburton could take his valuable place.

I haven't given up on Cade or Chet Holmgren yet.

Sometimes the right environment is all you need, you don't have to be Lebron but I guess Dame Lillard could be enough with the right supporting cast.

Just imagine if Dame had 1 or 2 top talents playing alongside him.

 

You do realize that Mobley is averaging like 3 points and 1 more rebound than Jabari right? And why would you bring up banchero?
Love the over valuation of other teams rookies and under valuation of our own.

 

Just taking a look at our competition in the West will make you realize how stacked it is. Jalen Green will be at least have to be good as a Brandon Ingram and we don't even have our generation type player in Zion yet... on top of that Pelicans own the Lakers pick, which can easily be a lotto pick.

The fact is, the large majority of teams that win the finals will always have an MVP tier player on the team. If we don't get Wemby... or even Scoot, we will have tanked for nothing because nothing from what I've seen from Green and Jabari suggests they are a generational talent.

I'd say the best player out of the last 2 drafts is Banchero and the numbers back it up. The guy looks like a top 10 player on some nights and it's his rookie year.

 

Jalen is going to be a big time Star he is just in a shooting slump(again). Jabari is a Star as well but he is not on the level as Bancheros right now. Bancheros is a great offense scorer. He is not a good shooter or a defender, just a great offense guy. We are going to put Jabari on training wheels to help with his handles and gaining weight to be a better player under the basket. However, Jabari is a great two way player, he is a great shooter and a great defender…On defense, we have seen what he did against the Bucks, and his outside shooting and the post ups around the basket. He is more than a glorified catch and shoot. He can be a unstoppable player he just need patience. We have two thirds of our future, anxiously waiting for the draft and free agency this summer. Stone had two great draft, nice trades for Wood, Harden, Wall and PJ Tucker to receive 1st round picks and swaps. I believe Stone is either scared or just so conservative to make a big trade because he is afraid of the media to point fingers to him killing the franchise. This next Draft and Free Agency is on him and he cannot hid behind the Harden’s trade. Fans are tired of Silas….not playing Sengun like the other starter’s minutes, playing undrafted Nix instead of TyTy, not starting Martin instead of Gordon, avoiding Christopher completely and playing Mathews. He is a bad head coach and he knows the fans is tired of him and you can see he is losing confidence….Silas needs to go but I will wait after the summer to see what Stone has done…because after the Summmer free agency the rebuild is over.

 

Probably another two years.

Stone doesn't even have a clean slate yet.

Most of the gripes are either very minor or stem from just a general lack of understanding how long rebuilds take.