Tmac in his interview said, "As long as Weisbrod was the GM, I didn't wanna play for Orlando" Dream said he didn't wanna play for Houston if Patterson was the GM of the ROckets...thats one thing they have in common
Don't knock Charlie Thomas and Steve Patterson, they were good owners/people. And Steve Patterson was the mind behind the Texans, McNair was the money behind it. I use to work in the same office building, when they were trying to get the NFL back. Chaney was canned cause the team lost confidence in him. Les was LUCKY he acquired that team, that team was BUILT BY PATTERSON. Morey gets alot of love here, but not Steve. Patterson chronology 1976-1983 -- Begins Rockets career as part-time worker in ticket sales and other areas. 1984 -- After earning a law degree from the University of Texas, joins his father, Rockets president and general manager Ray Patterson, in the front office as counsel to the president and marketing director. 1986 -- Takes control of the team's business operations, installing a computer system to handle ticketing, accounting and player personnel operations. Feb. 12, 1989 -- After accepting Houston's bid coordinated by Patterson, NBA holds its All-Star Game at The Summit. Sept. 11, 1989 -- Named at age 32 as the Rockets' general manager, succeeding his father in that role and becoming the youngest GM in the NBA. Sept. 27, 1990 -- Acquires point guard Kenny Smith from Atlanta along with Roy Marble for Tim McCormick and John Lucas. Feb. 21, 1990 -- Acquires starting guard Vernon Maxwell from San Antonio Spurs for an undisclosed amount of cash. June 27, 1990 -- Trades the rights to Alec Kessler to Miami for the rights to Dave Jamerson and Carl Herrera. July 2, 1990 -- Signs guard Sleepy Floyd to four-year contract; Floyd is released after the 1992-93 season. Sept. 3, 1991 -- Negotiates three-year contract with top draft choice John Turner, who fails to stick with the Rockets. Oct. 23, 1991 -- Signs Kenny Smith to five-year contract. Feb. 18, 1992 -- Fires Rockets coach Don Chaney and names Rudy Tomjanovich as interim head coach. March 23, 1992 -- Suspends center Hakeem Olajuwon without pay, claiming he has failed to play when physically able to do so. Olajuwon claims he is suffering from a hamstring injury and is unable to play, and suggests he is unsure if he wants to play for the Rockets if Patterson remains as general manager. May 20, 1992 -- Names Tomjanovich as head coach. June 24, 1992 -- Despite a chorus of boos from The Summit fans, makes the decision to draft forward Robert Horry, who goes on to become a productive forward in his rookie season. March 15, 1993 -- Olajuwon signs a four-year extension with the Rockets worth $25.4 million that places him under contract with the team through 1999. July 30, 1993 -- Rockets owner Charlie Thomas completes the sale of the team to businessman Les Alexander. Aug. 30, 1993 -- Alexander fires Patterson as Rockets general manager.
Well he did play for Houston when Patterson resigned him. Patterson got fired when Les became owner, not by Charlie Thomas. Oh, Steve Patterson went to the Blazers and acquired this guy Brandon Roy and this other dude Lamarcus Aldridge
Weisbrod <> Patterson Paper: HOUSTON CHRONICLE Date: SUN 12/19/1993 Section: Sports Page: 12 Edition: 2 STAR Steve Patterson proud of Rockets By EDDIE SEFKO Staff You've heard about the guy who spent all day washing and waxing his new set of wheels, forgetting that it was a rental car? Steve Patterson knows the feeling well. Patterson isn't around to see the finished product that he and his father spent the better part of two decades building, accessorizing and polishing. Patterson was fired as the Rockets' general manager after Leslie Alexander took over as owner. But it must be noted that the potentially ugly Hakeem Olajuwon contract dispute had been resolved and key acquisitions Mario Elie and Sam Cassell had been reeled in while Patterson called the shots for the Rockets. He poured the foundation, erected the beams and girders and did everything but slap on the final coat of paint on this palatial mansion of a season the Rockets are having. "I'm real proud of the job Rudy and the staff and players have done," Patterson says. "Obviously, the guys I worked with for a long time over there are like family members. Between Ray (his father) and I, we put 20 years toward building something, and we want to see it do well. "It's the best team in the league, and that's very gratifying."
Man, you definetily know your Rockets history...he was a good GM, but accusing somebody of faking an injury is just pretty low...I don't blame Dream one bit for making that comment about him. But I think Dream saw that the team was talented, and I'm sure Rudy T. had a talk with him...wasn't he an assistant/or worked with the ROckets for many years, including Dream's tough times. But Dream was a changed man also after he found religion. Ya, I think he knew the ROckets wanted Roy...maybe it was his way at finally getting back at Les Alexander and the ROckets...he succeeded in that, lol. They got Roy, we got Battier....advantage, Portland by A LOT! That would've changed things drastically in Houston...if we got roy
Allegedly, this is what happened. 1. Dream wanted a new contract 2. The Rockets said no 3. Dream said "Fine, my leg hurts then" 4. The Rockets suspended Dream 5. Dream came back 6. Rockets almost traded him 7. Dream met with Charlie Thomas on plane to Japan, worked it out. 8. Dream got new contract. The rumor was that Patterson had Dream on tape saying "well then my leg hurts" and that was why the players association either dropped the appeal or never appealed, (can't recall exactly). Either way, remember that a young Dream was a hot head, and it may very well be that he said exactly that.... Either way, people make mistakes, and the rest is Houston history. DD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gp1tu-zYgc&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3zcjuKwIcI Forgot to post this...Even Vince Carter got booed when he returned to Toronto the first time...Apparently Toronto wasn't good enough for him It happens...but the problem is, fans don't know everything...they can hold up whatever signs they want to insult a player but when that player did everything they could've done for your team, and they insult them like that, its disrespectful in my opinion. Vince Carter and Tmac couldn't have done more for Toronto and Orlando...Carter had support 1 year in Toronto, Tmac never had his support healthy in Orlando. Then they get frustrated and want out...and of course the team can make them look like the bad guys...faking injuries, quitter, selfish, only care about stats/themselves, reason why they had horrible seasons. Its easy to blame the best player, but its usually not their fault. Sometimes they are injured, but not much they can do about that. The fans don't know how hard it is to play on a team without talent. They assume that good players are supposed to be heros/superhuman and lead any piece of crap to a title...not all fans, but the majority. Also, people love to bring up the fact that Tmac was on a team that went 21-61 and 34-48 in 2006...None of these were in their rookie seasons and either in their prime, or seasons leading up to their prime. VC was on a team that won 24 games and 33 the following year KG was on a team that won 33 and 32 games in 2 straight years. AI was on a team that won 33 and 38 games Dwade was on a team that won 15 games and was on a team that got swept by the "Baby Bulls" a year after they won the finals. Kobe was on a team that only won 34 games in 2004-05 Paul Pierce was on a team that finished with 36 or less wins 5 times. He only made the playoffs 4 times before KG and Allen came to Boston. These players are all great players, but they are only as good as their support...notice you don't see Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Dirk, Nash, Shaq, Chauncey Billups. These guys when they were leading their teams, always had talent around them. I didn't include Lebron or Melo, since they are still very young. Melo always had talent around him after his rookie season, and Lebron was just good enough to carry around crap after his rookie season. Carmello has never won less than 40 games, and Lebron hasn't won less than 40 games since his 2nd season as a 19 year old. But they are both young and have a LONNGG way to go, so we'll see if they have their bad season... Hakeem never won less than 40 games in his career til 1999-2000, but he wasn't leading that team, he was 36 or 37 by then. Jordan only won less than 40 games in his rookie season. Then only repeated that in Washington as the leader, but at 38-41 years old. The point is, no matter how great you are, (unless you are an all time great such as Hakeem, Jordan, etc.), you are going to have HORRIBLE team success for a season or two, if not more. Your team is only as good as the talent on that team. No one player, no matter how great an all around player they are can avoid that, with the exception of a handful of greats. Tmac, Pierce, Kobe, VC, AI, Kobe, and KG were some of the greats of our era (3 MVP's, 2 Finals MVP's, 6 scoring titles, 5 NBA titles) alone in this group...yet they all had their "rock bottom" points in their careers...ONLY SO MUCH ONE PLAYER CAN DO...even GREAT PLAYERS... only GOAT type players can carry a team with little talent to moderate success. I wasn't aiming this specifically at you Tinman (just the videos and the first part of the post) but I think you should read the 2nd part of the post as well...just some extra research I did.
Forgot to add Jason Kidd to the list of people who didn't have bad Team seasons (less than 40 wins) after their 1st couple of seasons or in their older years, as the leader of their teams. Kidd is on this list along with Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Shaq, Billups, Dirk, Nash from this era of basketball. Carmello and Lebron are here at the moment... but only time will determine how long they can stay on this great/lucky list (lucky to have talent most of their careers)
I understand that players can't win without good teammates. But as I mentioned to you before. Staying long enough to endure the bad times shows your character and leadership. Paul Pierce went through some horrible teams, but he never wanted to leave. Actually KG didn't really want to leave the Twolves either. But what your highest paid players do can rub off on the fans. you compared Tmac and Vince, both notorious for work ethic. Because you threw MJ's name in the mix, this what CHICAGO gave to MJ when he came back as a Wizard <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NT16TKR0boA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NT16TKR0boA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> Note how completely different the fan reaction is from Tracy's return to orlando. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/T-Ekfbt8aew&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/T-Ekfbt8aew&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
Well, Michael Jordan electrified the city of Chicago for 13 seasons, and brought them 6 titles, a 72 and 69 win season (back to back), 2 dunk contest wins, 5 MVP seasons, a DPOY...you name it, he did it. Also how long you stay with a franchise has a lot to do with how your reception goes in your 1st game back...KG was in Minnasota for 11 seasons, AI was in Philly for 11 seasons, Jordan was in Chicago 13 seasons, Pippen was in chicago 11 seasons, Ewing was in NY 15 seasons. Dream was in Houston for 17 seasons. Clyde was in Portland 12 seasons. All of those players got warm receptions when they returned...and they were great players. Sometimes, players are also willing to stay if the team forks up the $ to keep them... maybe why Pierce stayed, but don't know for sure... Garnett was almost untradeable because of the size of his contract. Took 7 players to equal his contract. Its no contest to compare Tmac, Carter, Pierce, AI, KG, Kobe etc. as far as success goes. Only Duncan is comparable...maybe even consistent with team success, since I feel he had more talent than Jordan throughout his career...but Jordan's peak support from 96-98 was better than any year of Duncan's support. Duncan has never won less than 50 games...thats just impressive by Duncan, his supporting cast, his coach, and most importantly his GM for getting him that type of talent...he's also never lost a playoff series in a sweep, something he has on Shaq (7 times I think for him).
Exactly, the fans gave MJ what he deserved. Same with Tmac, the fans gave him what he deserved. They built a statue for MJ. They didn't even build an Amway pyramid scheme for Tmac. With the exception of Carter, all of those guys never rubbed the fans the wrong way. They were Johnny Gill to their fans. Tmac and Vince they were like Bel Biv Devoe to their fans.. Poison! Poison! PPPP Poison! Never trust a big contract and smile!
Also, MJ left Chicago with a championship season....also MJ would be cheered in any arena he went to. By his 2nd comeback, very few arenas (such as MSG) would boo Jordan, but even they cheered him for his last game as a Bull there and as a Wizard. Jordan was simply the Greatest...he commanded that type of respect with his once in a life time type of basketball play/greatness. Any arena you went to, and Jordan was playing, you saw more Jordan jerseys than the home team...just a testemant to how great and popular Jordan was.
This whole argument about Tmac not having good teamates is interesting but I find it incomplete. Because the great players elevate the level of their teamates, and let's not forget that Tmac is 20% of the players on the floor at any time. The best players make the other 80% even better, but more importantly they recognize that in order for the team to have overall success the other players have to be involved in making important team decisions in crucial situations on the floor. And by that I mean, they get to make the pass or shot late in games, I think Tmac still tries to do too much when he is on the floor, because of his enormous talent etc. Sometimes he succeeds, but that is fools gold because at the end of the day the do it all yourself method fails in the playoffs, and to me that is the biggest lesson he has not learned, or demonstrated. If he can learn to trust his teamates to make decisions with the ball, then I believe he would have playoff success. If not, I think he is doomed to first round exits, as long as he is leading the team. Just my .02. DD
yes he was booed but he repaired his relationship with the Laker fans and then some. At least Kobe did something for the fans before he demanded the trade. Tracy has a chance to repair his reputation with the organization and fans, but we'll see what he does.
I agree, he does try to do too much at times, but IMO its hard to blame him...I posted the lineups he had in Orlando and his teams in Houston under JVG weren't much either outside of Yao. He knows how to utilize Yao with pick n' roll or getting the ball to him in the post, but other than that, it was him driving and either finishing or kicking out...Rafer and Battier would just wait outside the 3 point line, and Chuck Hayes would just roam the baseeline for rebounds and the occasional layup (that he may miss). I think Tmac over the years has developed that mentality that he has to do it all, and now its hard to change, since he did have a lot of individual success and won 50+ games in 3 seasons in HOuston. But Kobe having SHaq, Horry, Fox, Fisher, etc. in his 1st few years may have been the best thing for him...taught him that he has to trust his teammates. The years he didn't have talent, he tried to do everything and it didn't work out so well for his team...but worked great for him individually. Lebron may end up similar to Tmac in that he won't know how to play any differently, and he's much better than Tmac playing that way, since he's more physically built for it. Dwade playing on a talented team helped him too. Pierce had 2 other guys who were in very similar situations (losing alot despite individual success), so that probably made them more open to playing with each other. But hopefully, Tmac learned from the Lakers series that he does have talented teammates now, and realize that he doesn't have to do EVERYTHING...he can let AB create off the dribble, he can let Scola post up or isolate, and he himself can play off the ball more and the team can play more up tempo. If those guys were capable of doing it, I think Tmac can also. Only time will tell though. But you are right, he needs to do that, in order to have playoff success, but I do think he tried to do that in Houston, but with Yao injured in 2008, it was hard, and he had to abandon it.
But the major difference is LeBron has actually taken his team much further. He has already proven with the fans and his teammates that he's the one that could take them far. Tmac hasn't taken any team, if you believe it's his fault or not. that's just the fact. think about this, you have to fly home. one airline can drop you off very close to home. one airline never leaves after the first stop. I'm flying the airline that can at least get me within the same state that i live in. As RKelly says I believe I can fly, I believe I can touch the sky!
