1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

What's the story behind 'We played with energy' after wins, 'We didn't play with energy' after losse

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Tuk88, Feb 23, 2015.

Tags:
Page 4 of 9
  1. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    27,724
    Likes Received:
    21,397
    McHale In Game: "Play harder guys, play harder. Clap, Clap"

    McHale Post Game: "We didn't have juice, ball got sticky, there was no energy."

    Nothing to read here.
     
    #61 FTW Rockets FTW, Feb 24, 2015
  2. Tuk88

    Tuk88 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    229
    I updated the stats in the past three games. You can't average out player speed, but you can add up total distance the players ran. If the season were only the last three games, one would conclude that the Rockets are 2-0 when running most than 16.5 miles, 0-1 when running less :) I also added in UFGA (uncontested FD attempts - thanks j@amc). Looking forward to the next game, win or lose - this is great therapy for Rockets anxiety.
     
    #62 Tuk88, Feb 24, 2015
  3. j@amc

    j@amc Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    2,555
    I think the stats (especially when compared against other NBA teams) gives some meat to McHale's incessant clapping for more pace, energy, and juice.

    Unfortunately, these players give below par 'effort' when measured statistically with the rest of the league. Now, please don't hear me being down on the team; we are winning and Harden is unbelievably good. But coaches are supposed to challenge their players, and energy/effort is one of the basic basketball minimums where this group of players struggles.

    McHale is trying to un-teach some really bad habits. I hope they will listen to him.
     
    #63 j@amc, Feb 24, 2015
  4. Tuk88

    Tuk88 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    229
    Vs the Clippers, the highest to lowest +/- were, in order (at least 15 min. of play), followed by their average game speed:

    Prigioni - 4.66
    Smith/Ariza - 3.75/3.99
    Brewer - 4.17
    Motiejunas - 4.34
    Jones - 4.16
    Harden - 3.92
    Terry - 4.24

    Distance: Rockets 16.52 > Clippers 16.46
    UFGA: Clippers 50 > Rockets 42

    Based on the numbers alone, Prigioni is bringing the most 'energy' by far. Harden and Smith are consistently the least 'active' on the court. In the last four games Harden has been near the bottom of the +/- department three times.

    “I thought Brew had a ton of energy. Trevor (Ariza) was out running the wings. Pablo was pushing it," McHale.

    Last 4 games:
    Distance: Rockets 16.52 > Clippers 16.46 W
    Distance: Rockets 16.55 > Wolves 16.37 W
    Distance: Toronto 16.72 > Rockets 16.5 W
    Distance: Mavs 16.63 > Rockets 16.35 L
     
    #64 Tuk88, Feb 25, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
  5. j@amc

    j@amc Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    2,555
    More notes on 'effort' and 'energy':

    Harden's mph (actually a 3.92) was his highest number in over a month. And Motiejunas really hard as well. Earlier in the season, he consistently ran in the 4.3's. Good to see that. Clearly, he can run with Prigioni.

    Fun to compare the Rocket's effort against DeAndre Jordan - who was a beast collecting 19-25 boards he had a chance to reach. But he didn't change ends much running a 3.84.

    Chris Paul was equally masterful but only ran 3.82, and Jamal Crawford shockingly turned in a 3.71. I think he disappeared as the game wore on.

    These stats reveal those Rocket run-outs in that 15-1 4th quarter burst.

    Shooting:

    However, this game was not just energy. We won because of shooting-- good thing the Clippers missed 28 uncontested shots. If you usually give up 50 uncontested looks, you lose. The better defenses in the league only give up 35. But hey, if they're missing, we'll take it.

    Great win. On to Brooklyn.
     
    #65 j@amc, Feb 26, 2015
  6. DrLudicrous

    DrLudicrous Contributing Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    3,936
    Likes Received:
    203
    #66 DrLudicrous, Feb 26, 2015
  7. Tuk88

    Tuk88 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    229
    I learned one thing, the advanced stats have quite a bit of lag, so the stats I originally posted didn't have the last few minutes of the game (and since updated). But I saved that to compare to the final results, and it shows a very telling key: The Rockets increased their energy +/- over the Clippers in the last few minutes significantly. See below. It also shows Brewer plays hard no matter what, and that's what makes him such an important member of the team. If you understand Occam's Razor, effort = wins. Maybe McHale is smarter than we think.


    Through most of the game, except for the last minutes:

    Prigioni - 4.58
    Smith/Ariza - 3.68/3.92
    Brewer - 4.17
    Motiejunas - 4.32
    Jones - 4.13
    Harden - 3.88
    Terry - 4.21

    Distance: Rockets 16.09 > Clippers 16.08 W


    Through the entire game:

    Prigioni - 4.66
    Smith/Ariza - 3.75/3.99
    Brewer - 4.17
    Motiejunas - 4.34
    Jones - 4.16
    Harden - 3.92
    Terry - 4.24

    Distance: Rockets 16.52 > Clippers 16.46
     
    #67 Tuk88, Feb 26, 2015
  8. SPBR

    SPBR Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    962
    Likes Received:
    44
    This XKCD
    [​IMG]
     
    #68 SPBR, Feb 26, 2015
    1 person likes this.
  9. Tuk88

    Tuk88 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    229
    Vs the Nets, the highest to lowest +/- were, in order, along with their average game speed:

    Jones - 4.16
    Prigioni - 4.59
    Beverley - 4.25
    Harden - 3.6
    Brewer/Smith - 4.38/3.69
    Motiejunas - 4.08
    Terry - 4.34
    Ariza - 3.81

    Distance: Nets 15.8 > Rockets 15.65
    UFGA: Rockets 39 > Nets 29

    Based on the numbers alone, Prigioni is consistently at the top of both +/- and 'energy'. Harden and Smith the least 'active' as usual, even worse with Harden's bad ankle. If Harden and Smith ever play above a '4', we'd probably be blowing more opponents out. The Warriors didn't have a single non-center under 4 tonight. That NEVER happens with the Rockets, will that always be the case?

    [Quotes to come]

    Last 5 games:
    Distance: Nets 15.8 > Rockets 15.65 W
    Distance: Rockets 16.52 > Clippers 16.46 W
    Distance: Rockets 16.55 > Wolves 16.37 W
    Distance: Toronto 16.72 > Rockets 16.5 W
    Distance: Mavs 16.63 > Rockets 16.35 L
     
    #69 Tuk88, Feb 27, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2015
  10. Tuk88

    Tuk88 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    229
    We played with the greatest amount of effort vs the Hawks as we have in the last 7 games, but they still outran us, which may be a major reason why they're #1. We've been outrun in our last 3 games, of which have either been wins by less than 5 points or losses. Our defense just isn't what it was at the beginning of the season... hmm... I wonder what the numbers look like back then...

    vs Hawks
    Prigioni - 4.45
    Beverley - 4.38
    Brewer - 4.28
    Motiejunas - 4.22
    Terry - 4.16
    Ariza - 4.11
    Jones - 3.93
    Smith - 3.74

    vs Cavs
    Prigioni - 4.34
    Brewer - 4.14
    Motiejunas - 4.08
    Beverley - 4.07
    Terry - 4
    Jones - 3.7
    Ariza - 3.52
    Smith - 3.52
    Harden - 3.38

    Last games:
    Distance: Hawks 16.8 > Rockets 16.64, UFGA: Hawks 51 > Rockets 40
    Distance: Cavs 16.87 > Rockets 16.64 (OT), UFGA: Cavs 47 > Rockets 32
    Distance: Nets 15.8 > Rockets 15.65 W, UFGA: Rockets 39 > Nets 33
    Distance: Rockets 16.52 > Clippers 16.46 W
    Distance: Rockets 16.55 > Wolves 16.37 W
    Distance: Toronto 16.72 > Rockets 16.5 W
    Distance: Mavs 16.63 > Rockets 16.35 L
     
    #70 Tuk88, Mar 4, 2015
  11. Tuk88

    Tuk88 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    229
    Not surprisingly, looking at our very first three games, our effort was noticeably higher. Didn't have time to look into more.

    vs Lakers

    Papanikolaou - 4.59
    Motiejunas - 4.33
    Beverley - 4.32
    Jones - 4.16
    Black - 4.09
    Terry - 4.06
    Howard - 3.71
    Harden - 3.66
    Ariza - 3.62

    Distance: Rockets 16.51 > Lakers 16.45; UFGA Rockets 34 > Lakers 30

    vs Jazz
    Motiejunas - 4.46
    Beverly - 4.39
    Papanikolaou - 4.35
    Black - 4.32
    Jones - 4.18
    Ariza - 4.01
    Terry - 4.18
    Howard - 3.8
    Harden - 3.64

    Distance: Rockets 16.27 > Jazz 16.19; UFGA Rockets 32 > Jazz 30


    Motiejunas - 4.67
    Papanikolaou - 4.62
    Canaan - 4.34
    Jones - 4.23
    Terry - 4.18
    Ariza - 4.1
    Harden - 3.89
    Howard - 3.88

    Distance: Rockets 17 > Celtics 16.95; UFGA Celtics 37 > Rockets 32
     
    #71 Tuk88, Mar 4, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2015
  12. j@amc

    j@amc Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    2,555
    Game Notes On Atlanta

    1 You can't give up 51 uncontested shots against Atlanta and win.

    2. Our 5-21 shooting + 5 turnovers in the first 6 minutes of the in the 4th quarter is typical and disastrous.

    3. Does anyone on this team know how to run a true back cut when being overplayed on the perimeter? You have to have coordination with your teammates and run!

    4. At some point, you would figure our young bigs would have enough experience to pull down some of these 50/50 rebounds. When is the light bulb going to come on so that we win more of the hand fighting and pushes in the back?

    5. Motiejunas isn't playing great and he still had 7 assists and drew 6 fouls. Good things happen when he gets it in the post.

    6. The advanced stats say that Patrick Beverley gave up 40 OPITP (opponent points in the paint). For a guy who's making his living based on being quick and keeping guards cut off - that's killing us. Don't Reach! Move Your Feet!
     
    #72 j@amc, Mar 4, 2015
  13. bmd

    bmd Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Messages:
    7,747
    Likes Received:
    3,517
    Rockets were playing with energy the whole game. The Hawks looked like they picked up their intensity and energy in the 4th quarter and made it tough for the Rockets to score.
     
    #73 bmd, Mar 4, 2015
  14. Tuk88

    Tuk88 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    229
    The key point here is that as much energy as the Rockets looked like they had, they were still outrun by the Hawks in that department, and yes, I'm guessing especially in the 4th quarter (which these the stats don't track, but wish they did).
     
    #74 Tuk88, Mar 4, 2015
  15. Tuk88

    Tuk88 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    229
    4 straight games now we've been outrun by the other team, and 6 of the last 8.

    vs Grizzlies
    Terry - 4.43
    Beverley - 4.32
    Motiejunas - 4.07
    Brewer - 4.05
    Ariza - 3.89
    Jones - 3.82
    Smith - 3.57
    Harden - 3.48

    Last games:
    Distance: Grizzlies 15.61 > Rockets 15.47, UFGA: Rockets 32 > Grizzlies 31
    Distance: Hawks 16.8 > Rockets 16.64, UFGA: Hawks 51 > Rockets 40
    Distance: Cavs 16.87 > Rockets 16.64 (OT), UFGA: Cavs 47 > Rockets 32
    Distance: Nets 15.8 > Rockets 15.65 W, UFGA: Rockets 39 > Nets 33
    Distance: Rockets 16.52 > Clippers 16.46 W
    Distance: Rockets 16.55 > Wolves 16.37 W
    Distance: Toronto 16.72 > Rockets 16.5 W
    Distance: Mavs 16.63 > Rockets 16.35 L
     
    #75 Tuk88, Mar 4, 2015
  16. bmd

    bmd Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2012
    Messages:
    7,747
    Likes Received:
    3,517
    Might have to do with the offense.

    The Rockets offense is pretty stagnant compared to many teams. Often times it's Harden dribbling with everybody else standing around the perimeter. Then he'll pass it off and that player will attempt to drive and kick. Then the next player will try to make something happen, etc.

    That's the Rockets offense half the time.
     
    #76 bmd, Mar 4, 2015
  17. Tuk88

    Tuk88 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    229
    If the players aren't moving on offense, then neither is the defense. If Harden is the only one moving on offense most of the time, it's strange that he's also at the bottom of total player movement.

    5 straight games now we've been outrun by the other team, and 7 of the last 9.

    Brewer, Beverley and Dorsey really turned it up a notch in the Pistons game.

    vs Pistons
    Brewer - 4.66
    Beverley - 4.6
    Dorsey - 4.51
    Terry - 4.3
    Motiejunas - 4.28
    Ariza - 4.19
    Jones - 4.1
    Harden - 3.92
    Smith - 3.78

    Last games:
    Distance: Pistons 17.29 > Rockets 17.01; UFGA: Pistons 41 > Rockets 36
    Distance: Grizzlies 15.94 > Rockets 15.86, UFGA: Rockets 32 = Grizzlies
    Distance: Hawks 16.8 > Rockets 16.64, UFGA: Hawks 51 > Rockets 40
    Distance: Cavs 16.87 > Rockets 16.64 (OT), UFGA: Cavs 47 > Rockets 32
    Distance: Nets 15.8 > Rockets 15.65 W, UFGA: Rockets 39 > Nets 33
    Distance: Rockets 16.52 > Clippers 16.46 W
    Distance: Rockets 16.55 > Wolves 16.37 W
    Distance: Toronto 16.72 > Rockets 16.5 W
    Distance: Mavs 16.63 > Rockets 16.35 L
     
    #77 Tuk88, Mar 7, 2015
  18. Tuk88

    Tuk88 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    229
    6 straight games now we've been outrun by the other team. The Nuggets had 58 UFGA compared to 31 for the Rockets??? I get the feeling we'll consistently lose to playoff teams unless this changes.

    Btw, the NBA team with the lowest average speed is at 4.1 mph. The Spurs are at the top at 4.3, even with all their old players.

    vs Nuggets
    Beverley - 4.46
    Motiejunas - 4.19
    Jones, Ariza - 4.19
    Brewer - 4.15
    Dorsey - 4.51
    Terry - 4.09
    Harden - 3.59
    Smith - 3.48

    "Corey changed the game around, just his energy, his running," McHale
    “I feel like if I have a lot of energy, it picks everybody else up,” Brewer

    Last games:
    Distance: Nuggets 16.3 > Rockets 16.14; UFGA: Nuggets 58 > Rockets 31
    Distance: Pistons 17.29 > Rockets 17.01; UFGA: Pistons 41 > Rockets 36
    Distance: Grizzlies 15.94 > Rockets 15.86, UFGA: Rockets 32 = Grizzlies
    Distance: Hawks 16.8 > Rockets 16.64, UFGA: Hawks 51 > Rockets 40
    Distance: Cavs 16.87 > Rockets 16.64 (OT), UFGA: Cavs 47 > Rockets 32
    Distance: Nets 15.8 > Rockets 15.65 W, UFGA: Rockets 39 > Nets 33
    Distance: Rockets 16.52 > Clippers 16.46 W
    Distance: Rockets 16.55 > Wolves 16.37 W
    Distance: Toronto 16.72 > Rockets 16.5 W
    Distance: Mavs 16.63 > Rockets 16.35 L
     
    #78 Tuk88, Mar 8, 2015
  19. Tuk88

    Tuk88 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    440
    Likes Received:
    229
    7 straight games now we've been outrun by the other team, 5 out of 7 the other team has had more uncontested field goal attempts. I repeat, we are going to continue to lose to playoff teams like this. Harden is MVP on offense, but I'm not sure that's worth losing the season series to every top four playoff team in the West.

    Beverley and Brewer are both really kicking it up on defensive effort. I just don't understand why Harden can't have just one single game above a '4' in a league where there are only five players in the entire LEAGUE that run less - see for yourself here, and those guys are all power forwards or centers. It's even worse when Josh Smith has only 12 players in the entire league that run less, and one of those is Howard. Does Harden walk on defense at times? Yes he does, and for anyone who's played any kind of zone defense or one that requires help, it takes only one slow player to have the rest of the defense fall like a house of cards.

    Anyway, I'm not going to get frustrated this year if the Rockets keep losing to the top West teams or exit the first round (or second), because the writing is already on the wall as far as I can tell - IMHO. I've already got my sense of acceptance and closure. I would love to be wrong.

    vs Blazers
    Beverley - 4.52
    Brewer - 4.34
    Motiejunas - 4.24
    Terry - 4.14
    Ariza - 4.04
    Jones - 4.01
    Smith - 3.79
    Harden - 3.63

    Last games:
    Distance: Blazers 16.48 > Rockets 16.15; UFGA: Blazers 47 > Rockets 44
    Distance: Nuggets 16.3 > Rockets 16.14; UFGA: Nuggets 58 > Rockets 31
    Distance: Pistons 17.29 > Rockets 17.01; UFGA: Pistons 41 > Rockets 36
    Distance: Grizzlies 15.94 > Rockets 15.86, UFGA: Rockets 32 = Grizzlies
    Distance: Hawks 16.8 > Rockets 16.64, UFGA: Hawks 51 > Rockets 40
    Distance: Cavs 16.87 > Rockets 16.64 (OT), UFGA: Cavs 47 > Rockets 32
    Distance: Nets 15.8 > Rockets 15.65 W, UFGA: Rockets 39 > Nets 33
     
    #79 Tuk88, Mar 12, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2015
  20. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    26,361
    Likes Received:
    29,525
    The Rockets didn't pass the eye test for energy last night. Only Jones and brewer.
     
    #80 napalm06, Mar 12, 2015
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 4 of 9

Share This Page

Toggle Width
Style
ClutchFans Original

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Rockets Content

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now