What's the best deal someone could offer for Harden in the offseason?

The obvious choice, especially regarding the coach.

 

My apologies, forgot to say, "work harder, clap clap." ;-)

 

I know he flops a lot and he whines a lot. But i would love to trade Harden and Lawson for CP3 and Redick. It makes us look good with media for having given Harden(and lawson) a chance to play in his hometown that he loves and we get a chance to have more of the same team that Howard had when he went to the finals except with better players including Redick having greatly improved since those seasons.

CP3 is arguably the second greatest pure point guard ever behind Stockton. Morey has gone as far as to call him the best pg ever IIRC though i don't know how he can say that when all advanced metrics point to him being slightly behind Stockton and with higher USAGE% than Stockton.

Cwight
PF: Trade for starter or healthy DMo
SF:Ariza
SG:JJ
PG:CP3

This team just feels better and fits better and no it's not just the Clippers minus Blake because Paul will make Dwight back to being a 20+ppg scorer while DMO with health has tremendous post game and stretch the floor ability to be a 17ppg scorer. CP3 allows us to get a hot young coach b/c CP3 is really the leader and on floor coach much like LeBron is. The great thing about CP3 is i think he's going to play til he's 40. He misses games here and there but nothing major. His play style is one that can last when he's lost all athletic ability much like Stockton. I also think if anyone breaks through the "no rings" hate, it will be CP3 with the right team.

Of course i'd take Blake and JJ as well. That would allow Lawson to play the way he naturally knows how and it allows us to get a coach like Thibs to come in and discipline these guys and be the real leader.

Lastly, above all i'd rather keep my pipe dream of Durant, Harden, Howard lineup with Thibs as coach.

 

Oh and yeah, i'd take Ben Simmons + players for Harden as well. Ben Simmons is the real deal. He will still need a strong personality on the bench to be the leader though. Hell, i'd make Ben Simmons our PG basically in a position-less offense like Miami ran with LeBron.

 

I really dont think there are any young players that teams would be willing to trade are even worth it... If we trade Harden we are basically just setting ourselves back 4 years. We need to just find better pieces to surround him with.

 

so we need players who can play 4 on 5 defense, rebound and hit 3 pointers with 2 seconds left on the shot clock... did i miss anything? lol

oh and dive between 2 defenders to dig out arrant bounce passes...lol

 

That's the problem I'm seeing, having Harden as your cornerstone means you'll have a broken and heavily flawed system, with the way he's currently performing. We know he's a top 10 talent and could dominate, but with his current mindset and flaws he's no player you'd really want to build around and rely on.

 

The question in the thread title is what's the best deal possible not IF we should trade Harden.

Nope it isn't.
There are about 3-4 teams who for the past 2-3 years have been painstakingly gathering assets just for situations like that, to pry away superstars. But superstars are NOT available and their assets have time limit.
The BKN 2016 pick will lose a lot of value after the draft. A lot likely it will be out of the top 3 so it can end up being someone like Dunn. (a pg who can't shoot). Then if BKN gets a gm and with their capspace and their good market there is a good enough chance that next year they won't suck enough to be in the top5 in the lottery.
Then we go to the player assets : Smart. Can't playmake and often injured. Not star potential. Soon he will need an extension -> asset loses some value.

Already has been happening to Boston with the assets of Sullinger and Zeller almost having lost all their value, Young not able to get time on the court to develop for two years now and same projectory for Rozer and Hunter and Mickey.
There is a limit to how many young players a team can give time to and develop. Boston has already reached that limit and with so many more picks coming it will pass it soon. (another example is the situation with Phoenix where Warren and Goodwin were buried and not given chance. And maybe the same could be said about Len).


Players if they can't get time on court and develop or even play they lose value as assets. And you will see it also if not already in Philly as well.
That's why a consolidation trade is needed and the perfect target for consolidation is a superstar.
Already three times that I know of has Ainge already tried to consolidate assets. Turned down all times. (two times for Gallinari where he tried to trade two first rounders and one time this draft where he tried to trade a LOT of first round picks for Winslow).

A potential Harden trade will have every team almost with young players and picks going for it. Gives Houston even more leverage.

 

I wouldn't bother trading Harden unless you get some awesome star out of it. A project player or a potential player in return is ****... Especially with the cap changing and him being cheap the team would be a heck of a lot better signing a 3rd star (or 2 stars if Howard ops out), and finding a real coach. The team would go from **** to the top, especially if it's a vet coach that can force harden to play like he does in Olympic games (so this coach has to be a legit one that he respects, not a bull**** interim one that was questionable as an assistant...).

You really don't just throw away a star, especially one that's the face of the franchise and still in his prime. I'm sure if Morey does that... good luck getting other "stars" for awhile.... I mean especially if the guy isn't a problem and doesn't come out and say he hates houston etc.

 

Houston isn't exactly a tier one destination, and Harden being here at least gets you a shot at getting some legit players. No one's going to sign on a team if you get trash in return. And fortunately Morey/Les are at least smarter than most of us in that regard... lol, a ****ty player for a star... Oh right let's take back Martin for Harden.... Gtfo

 

Personally I can't imagine any scenario where we don't lose in a trade involving Harden. I believe in the maxim that the team that gets the best player wins the trade, no matter how the rest of the deal might go. And I don't see any scenario where we trade James and get a better player than him in return.

 

We
Are
Not
Trading
Harden
(At least until next year)

 

LES likes taking risks. He does love big names so i doubt we can get anyone who has a bigger name than Harden other than maybe Blake who is extremely marketable and Les probably loves that. But, i'm sure Les is aware media and fan image is pretty damn low right now and probably going to be forever in Dwights case.

I give it after next season before Les gives up on Harden IMO. Just as he's going to an expiring contract.

 

I think on paper you would be correct... until you factor in the addition by subtraction factor... removing Harden from the equation and replacing him with a team oriented player that may not be quite as talented may allow others to grow and flourish... not to mention additional players, picks, etc...

as it stands, when u have harden, you are putting all your eggs in the harden basket - and you are going as far as he takes you...

it's possible Iverson scenario vs championship Pistons possibilities - imo...

 

just for everyone's information we take 2.9(most in the league) 3 point attempts per game with 4 or less seconds on the shot clock and hit 32.2%(5th best) of them.

Just for reference:

Cleveland takes 2.5
Dallas and Clips take 2.3
Spurs take 1.7
GS takes .7

 

Notice the teams with less and most iso heavy offense in that list.

 

What I notice is that this isn't happening anywhere near as much as people think it is.

And when it comes to 2 point attempts with 4 or less seconds left on the shot clock the Spurs are near the top of the league and the Rockets near the bottom.

combined 2s and 3s the Spurs take more shots with less than 4 seconds on the shot clock per game than we do.

 

Good post.

 

Dude's value is dropping fast, no way in hell you could get blake.

 

Exactly. Another case of CF.NET focusing on things that aren't a problem.

Actually that 2.9 shots per game is an overstatement since the complaints are for Harden passing the ball with the shot clock about to expire. Well, Harden is taking 1 of those 2.9 shots per game with the clock between 0-4 seconds. So if you assume that all the rest of those shots with the clock running down came off passes from Harden, then that's only 1.9 shots per game.

Even leaving Harden's shots in the totals, if we replaced those 2.9 shots with the clock running down with wide open 3s (closest defender 6+ away) that we shoot at 38.9% that would mean a difference of +0.58 points per game.

We have people focusing on things that cost us just over a point every two games? Yeah, that's a major issue.

Clutchfans, where we fix things that aren't really a problem.