1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

What's really the downside to having a new, young coach?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by meh, Apr 15, 2011.

  1. meh

    meh Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    16,161
    Likes Received:
    3,361
    This is why I don't understand how people are so hung up on Adelman. In the NBA, players >>>>> coaches in terms of impacting win totals and post-season success.

    Case in point:
    Phil Jackson + Cleveland with no Lebron = one of the crappiest teams in the NBA.
    Any crappy coach, say Mike Brown + Cleveland with Lebron = championship contender

    In the end, it's much more important to get top players over top coaches. Not to mention that if we draft the next Kobe or DHoward, some top coach will want to come here anyway. And if we don't get any top rookie by being another 9th seed, we'd suck anyway. With or without Adelman. So what's the loss?
     
  2. DCkid

    DCkid Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2001
    Messages:
    9,660
    Likes Received:
    2,704
    Now is that Adelman's assistant coaches? Will they leave with him when he goes to a new team? And by young players, I'm not just talking about rookies. Look at even the young veterans who seem to have improved under Adelman. Also, do you think it matters for a young player to have actual game experience playing on a good disciplined team with a good system? Or can they learn/show just as much playing in chaos?


    I was referring to the Rockets actually acquiring an impact player (let's say being good enough to win fifty under Adelman). Would you still be willing to toss away five games?
     
  3. meh

    meh Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    16,161
    Likes Received:
    3,361
    First of all, EVERY team has bumps over the course of an NBA season. And these are unavoidable, simply due to 82 game season where things will happen, and players will get injured. Just look at the Spurs and their injury woes.

    Let's just look at the teams above us.

    You can say Memphis won't miss Rudy Gay for the last part of the season, plus they'll have the no-stat allstar in Shane for an entire year.
    Portland always reloads and deals.
    NO might drop out if CP3 becomes an issue.
    Denver will have a full year without Melo drama and their current players.
    1-4 are so beyond the Rockets reach there's no point in even comparing us with them.

    So assuming Phoenix, Utah, and no one else step up big, the Rockets will get what, 8th seed next year? Is that really all you're hoping for as a Rockets fan?
     
  4. meh

    meh Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    16,161
    Likes Received:
    3,361
    See, this is something only the Rockets can answer. Because none of us knows just what the breakdown is in terms of credit for any young player. Yes, players always rave about Adelman, because he's a player's coach. And generally, players that hate the coach and isn't a superstar tends to get traded anyway. But I see no reason why the Rockets young player pipeline will suddenly stop if Adelman leaves. If anything, if the new coach works more closely with Morey, player development might get better, because there will be less "Brooks killing chemistry" problems.

    Do you have any idea how awesome a player has to be to increase our win total by 7? We're talking about borderline-allstar AT LEAST here. An Andrew Bogut type, or perhaps Danny Granger type. Someone who's not on the FA market this offseason.

    And if Morey does have some secret up his sleeve, there would be zero chance of him letting Adelman go(IMHO).
     
  5. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    47,486
    Likes Received:
    19,584
    Sounds like the same garbage that was put out last year.

    "We will have Yao now"

    "The guys will know the system now"

    "We have Brad Miller now"

    give me a break
     
  6. dreamshakin

    dreamshakin Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    943
    Likes Received:
    462
    There is no point in firing Adelman. Every other coach will be just a liability. If we do end up letting him go, I say try to get Van Gundy back here!
     
  7. RV6

    RV6 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2008
    Messages:
    25,522
    Likes Received:
    1,109
    This team isnt going to suck with a new coach. This team doesnt have enough talent be a contender, but it has more than enough not to suck. The only way it'll happen is if we still have no center and 2 of martin/scola/lowry go down at the same time for a significant amount of time. Sure it can happen, but how likely is it?

    We have two options. Let guys go in order to tank and go backwards to get that high pick or keep being that 7 or 8th seed talent while trying to improve. Tanking is going to set you back years. It won't be one season of sucking to get a star and then you're back on the playoff path. Going forward from here wont set you back and we still have the ability to improve. If we were in a situation where we had lowry, martin, and scola "carrying" us to mediocrity and all the other guys sucked and just took up cap space, then yeah, time to blow it up because there's not much to work with it there. you dont really have a star or supporting cast and no way to really get them. That's not the case here. We have enough flexibility to keep going as is and look to improve the team. Keeping the same system/coach is only going to make it easier to evaluate the team, so that Morey can make the best move possible.
     
  8. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 1999
    Messages:
    7,157
    Likes Received:
    518
    Why don't you cut through all the bull**** and say what you mean. You don't like Adelman. You think he had little to do with the players improvement and you don't think his coaching and system make much of a difference in wins. In general you think coaches make little difference in wins. It's the players that matter. And you would like to see us tank.
     
  9. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2005
    Messages:
    21,310
    Likes Received:
    11,755
    meh, can this team coached by adelman would have won at least 50 games this year?

    Lowry, Dragic
    Martin, Lee
    Budinger
    Scola Patterson
    Hayes Hill
     
  10. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,749
    Likes Received:
    3,694
    when that dude's in the draft, and our team is that close to the worst, i'll support it
     
  11. meh

    meh Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    16,161
    Likes Received:
    3,361
    WTF!? If you have read any of the JVG v Adelman threads, I have always vigorously defended Adelman. I must've stated hundreds of times how people keep BSing about Adelman's lack of defense, when he's coached many top defensive teams. Truth be told, with my Rockets-colored glasses off, I'd rather have Adelman coach than Rudy. THAT'S how much I think of Adelman as a coach, to the point where I can spew blasphemy like that.

    But that's different from player development, because I feel it's an organizational contribution rather than any coach's.
    And that's also different from how I feel in terms of star players vs coaches impact on teams. Where I side heavily in terms of star players.

    So please, I probably understand Adelman's strengths better than 99% of the posters here, most of whom believe Adelman doesn't know jack squat about defense. I simply recognize that at this point, our problems cannot be solved by having a good coach alone. So him leaving doesn't really make things worse long term.
     
  12. meh

    meh Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2002
    Messages:
    16,161
    Likes Received:
    3,361
    No. Because if I did, I would not have started this thread.
     
  13. BasketballMind

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2010
    Messages:
    2,190
    Likes Received:
    1,416
    I don't agree with the tanking nonesense...

    I'm sure there are other coaches that can come in...have the same type of gameplans, have the same type of plays...BUT

    The one thing that a new, younger, cheaper coach wont have is the proven leadership, accomplishments, and respect that Adelman has. That alone could be worth the extra $mil or two that Adelman is worth...if it gets your team to all be on the same page and play hard.
     
  14. roxallways

    roxallways Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2008
    Messages:
    17,957
    Likes Received:
    10,607
    Meh, your dead on....
     
  15. CDrex

    CDrex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    5,999
    Likes Received:
    1,498
    Eh, eh, eh. Not my point. I would be all for recruiting a young coach with a fresh outlook if RA is unavailable for whatever reason. My issue isn't with the idea of taking a chance that can help or hurt you, it's with the notion that becoming worse and becoming better are both good outcomes of a move.
     
  16. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    38,078
    Likes Received:
    29,497
    The plan of the current Rockets management is building, not tanking. In light of this, I think letting a good coach go is a highly risky business. I hope Morey has done his calculation right.
     
  17. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    11,410
    Likes Received:
    12,647
    1st Half Record 18-23
    2nd Half Record 25-16
    Over the last 25% of the season we were 6th in the nba in differential.

    This team improved by leaps and bounds throughout the season. One positive acquisition in the off season and I don't see why this team isn't AT LEAST a 50 win team.

    I don't understand why people are so ready to scrap what we have. Our team is young, people keep saying this team is built around Yao, but that has become less and less true every single year he has been here and gotten hurt. Yes we are built around him in the sense that he is costing us the most money, but the team we have now is an uptempo offensive beast. We are in need of a defensive presence with height to really put us back where we want to be. We no longer need yao, "the best offensive center in the game", we need someone to clog the paint, get some boards and change some shots.

    Everyone wants to start another new waiting process by changing coaches and losing games, when if you really think about it we have been playing the waiting game already for the past 2-3 seasons and the time has finally come. Yao's contract is finally up... I for one would like to see what we can do now when we aren't paying our highest paid guy to sit on the bench. I honestly just don't see anyone who will do a better job than Rick at leading a COMPLETE TEAM next year.
     
  18. Ras137

    Ras137 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    62
    Idiot.

    There are three things working against you Idiot.
    1. There was NO DRAFT LOTTERY in 1984. You could suck and GUARANTEE the first overall pick. Which is exactly what they did for Olajuwon. Now, at best 25% chance for the overall number 1 pick.
    2. 1984 the greatest draft ever, there is no sure fire number 1 superstar pick in this or next year's draft. In fact since Tim Duncan in 1997, there has only been ONE (count that ONE) superstar sure fire number 1 (Lebron).
    3. Again '84 was great but let's look at the other drafts of that era '85 Ewing (okay, but nothing to go gaga over) '86 Brad Daugherty (no thank you). Heck, we had the number 1 pick in '83 and we got Ralph Sampson (good while he was healthy), but do you know who the 14th pick was (just like we have this year) 'Effin Clyde "the Glyde" Drexler.
     
  19. SamCassell

    SamCassell Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    9,478
    Likes Received:
    2,311
    Definitely, tanking is the way to go. High lottery picks are the key to success.

    That was proven when the Rockets won multiple championships with Yao (#1, 02), Francis (#2, 99), and Eddie Griffin (#7, 01), all plucked from the top of the lottery. Those guys delivered!
     
  20. AggNRox

    AggNRox Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2003
    Messages:
    3,284
    Likes Received:
    59
    do you really think the current team will win sth for you?

    this team was built around yao. it's been said many times by dm since he took over the job. at same time, he piled up the assets (in his opinion) and hoped a trade to get 2nd superstar besides yao when tmac was way out. denying won't serve your argument better.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now