If Cat was killed in a freak accident, the team would not miss him one beat. He'd be replaced with a Flip Murray type just like that. And Flip Murray can pass better. Big deal. You Cat only fans ridiculously overvalue your guy because you like him. The league is awash in 2 guards; it's the least demanding spot to buy talent. If you any chance to move him, do it. Replace him with someone that knows to work with Yao.
Well, apparently you're a "YOF". First off all, Yao needs all the help he can get. The guy isn't about to be the MAIN option next season and still have enough gas in the tank to play in the playoffs. What Yao needs, is to be the second scoring option, he needs a consistent first option to take away the pressure from him and the team of his shoulders (T-Mac). And needs a dependable, solid third scoring option who has defense and know shis role perfectly (Cat). And you jackass, the league is not "awash" in 2 gaurds who can score and defend, SOLIDLY. And first off all, there is no abundant source of 2 gaurds like Cat who can leap through a freaking keyhole with an unbelievable first step and also possess a midrange to 3pt jumpshot. And my god, if you THINK there is a huge list of 2 gaurds who are Cat's age and are as mature and capable of learning a role and playing it very well in ONE year, who promises to even learn more, then you are freaking delusional. The guy was our best perimeter defender from regular season to post season, played Kobe ON BOTH ends of the court as good as any two could try, and that makes him a useless commodity? The ignorance of it all.
I don’t know about keeping Cat at any cost, but considering what the Rockets can get for Cat compared to what they could get for Steve, I’d prefer to keep Cat over Steve. Mobley is a better 3rd option than Steve is a 2nd option.
Are you joking? Hamilton has been one of the best players in the entire playoffs. He has led his team to the Finals, it's only in the Finals that Billups has shown up. Not to mention, Hamilton is known for having one of the quickest first steps in the league. After these Finals, Hamilton will start being known as one of the better SG's in the league. Clearly, he can score on anyone. He did it against Artest, and now against Kobe. As for Iverson, again, you must be kidding. No matter how you look at it, Allen Iverson is a better player than Mobley. Iverson makes double what Mobley makes, so you can argue that Mobley is better than half of Iverson, but Mobley is no Iverson. My goodness, Iverson has taken Philadelphia to the Finals, has won the scoring title a couple of times, and has the biggest heart in the NBA. He's been an All STar pretty much his whole career and has played for the National Team. He's been on the All NBA FIRST TEAM IIRC. The Hamilton case was arguable before the playoffs. The Iverson case is not even worth arguing. My God, I never thought I'd see the day someone says Mobley is better than Allen Iverson, no matter HOW much you hate Iverson.
Ahem, we're discussing their current status. Would you seriously take the Iverson of now, than the Cuttino of now for this Rockets' current roster? I'm pointing out who is better NOW, not years back that can do nothing for the present. Again, discussing what they do NOW and what they offer for a team NOW. As for Hamilton, I was judging him based on his performance on game 2, for you saying he's doing it now on Kobe. The game commentators have started tonight's game 3 by saying how Hamilton MUST start to score. He has been lacking in offense, and in game 2, I saw nothing interesting let alone impressive. And in all the games I've seen Mobley play in, in his worst, he has never failed to get atleast past the perimeter. In game two, i constantly saw Hamilton get stopped just as he made his first step, he just couldn't find his way in and started jacking up shots which were mostly bricks. I don't know if prior to the post season Hamilton has been playing amazingly or what hav eyou. But, I was judging him on the games I've seen him play from start to finish. And aside from his trouble scoring on Kobe, I really notice his lack of defense, every single time Kobe's having a hard time, I see Prince and Billups, no Hamilton.
Ok, Sane. I just looked up the stats on Hamilton, and it appears career wise Hamilton averages less steals per game by plenty, less rebounds per game(most of which are defensive), and just about equal to Cat in assists per game. Offensively, Hamilton has a slightly better FG%, but completely worse 3pt percentage. I also notice Cat has average more FG attempts per game than Hamilton has. As SOF's would say, only with a lot less logic, give him one more year with JVG and I assure you he'll improve on that flaw of his game. The jacking up of ill adviced shots. As PPG go, they're about the same aswell. Now, call me strange or silly, but seeing how minute Cat's offensive flaws are compared to Hamilton's, I mean really small, and how he has much better defense(which he achieved and learned in the same year he was suggested and guided to defend for the first time) than Hamilton. And really, as I see Richard Hamilton now, he does seem quicker, however his slashing abilities are not at all superior to Cat's. I mean no way no how. Judging Hamilton's offensive moves and style, I'd garauntee you if you put those two on a one on one Cat would come out the victory. Better defense, quicker first step, and he'd just take him easily on and off the dribble, not to mention has a three point shot.
Uhh no, we wouldn't. Nobody would care if he died CAT is VITAL to the ROCKETS success. YOU are a ****ing ridiculous ****. What in the hell makes you think this way?? I mean, did you WATCH ONE FREAKING GAME?!?!?! wtf wtf wtf
I'm with you at this one. We can't get one player at Cat's price that would produce like he does. He is an excellent defender, when his shot get's streaky he is intelligant enough to slash to the basket and draw the foul, or find the hot hand. Plus having Cat, takes a load of pressure off the other scorers, especially when Yao only plays 30 minutes a night. And who else is gonna guard Kobe and the other elite guards in the league? Cat fitted into JVG's system perfect. I thought he wouldn't, just as Stevie didn't. Steve tried, and i give him credit. The guy's just not a PG. We've all known this for years. He hasn't shown any signs of improvement either. And if Steve wasn't here, Mobley would be getting 20 plus points a night. Probably only 15 if GOD does land us T-Mac. But cat loves Houston and will adjust however he is needed. Trading Cat and Steve would be absolulty stupid. And i'd rather keep Steve and Cat for another year and wait for TMac to become a free agent and come here next year. I really believe steve can score close to 30 a night in Orlando just as TMac did. Besides, we should have the upper hand in these negotiations, since Steve and Mobley aren't the one's asking to get traded.
Redgoose, as much as you'd like to keep Steve here. There's just no way Steve, Cat AND T-mac with Yao in the starting line up works. Too many hungry scoring talents. Two of them will suffocate their game trying to give the other players more plays, and that will only hurt the team chemistry. Now, what I'd LOVE to have, is Cat at the two, and T-mac at SF. I mean, with Yao at Center, it's just so damn enticing to think how well those three together could really compliment eachother's style nicely. But yes, if we're getting T-mac, Steve's gotta go. Like New Jack said, Cat's a better third option than Steve is a second option. And no way Steve avg 30 a night, or even 28 a night, without having Allen Iverson like percentage of .380. Despite what you may say of his elbow, Steve's never had a respectable jumpshot, one that defenders would worry about. And his driving skills aren't at all intelligent, hence why he usually ends up banging up his body, always drives into a crowd. Which is also where he gets half his turnovers. Steve is a great athletic talent with a lot of heart, but nowhere near as much slashing/driving intelligence as Cat, who also has a more consistent mid ranger and 3pt shot. If you notice Cat when he drives it in, he'll notice if the defense starts to favor him or starts to lean into him. If it favors him, he'll drive it in, with a quick first step, and just leap to the basket smoothly leaving everyone staring like "what was that blur?" Or sometimes, he'll notice the defense start to lean into him just before it clogs up and leap through a keyhole with little to no contact. And if it's too late, he spots it quickly, and doesn't hesitate to stop for a midranger. And now with his first season of JVG ball, he's slowly learning, but truely learning not to jack up shots when he feels the need to get some points on the board, and to instead play his game and go with the flow of the game and team. Plus, has developed very nice defense, which I feel will improve even more with another season under JVG's guidance. And more outsanding that I wasn't really sure Cat had it in him, he showed that come playoff time, he can put all his energy in defense and still have energy to give a player like Kobe trouble on the offensive end at the sametime. He really is a player with not only heart, but with intelligence and is learning to hone and control the passions of his heart to where he can channel them in a beneficial way for the team at will.
Wow, fatman, that had me rolling. Outstanding work. pasox2, please just tell me that it's a long damn offseason and that's why you're trying to start a little commotion here. While I have no problem with YOFs who actually have something somewhat intelligent to post, those who just spout **** become tiresome. It's okay, dude, it's just the offseason--the time to spend a little time with the wife, pretend that baseball is interesting, and formulate crazy-ass threads involving major stars we can't realistically obtain for Mike Wilks. It's not for spouting ****.
My post must have not been that clear. Of course Steve has to go in order to get T-Mac. I was just giving Steve props for trying to adjust to Van Gundy's style, but it just didn't work out. However, i do believe Cat fits in perfectly to the new system. I liked his shot selection last year, but as we all know Cat is a streaky shooter. But at least he recognizes when he's not shooting well. Then he tries to slash and get others involved, while still playing great D. T-mac and Mobley can both penetrate and either score or dish it of to Yao. Defenses won't know what they'll do with the ball and who to switch over to. What i said at the end, is i'd rather hold onto Steve and Cat for another year. Then we'd have to trade Steve, hopefully for a draft pick to Charlotte or someone with cap space so we don't have to take on any salary. Then we sign T-mac with the lost cap space from Francis. T-mac then opts out after Yao had another year of improvment, making the Rockets look even better. I just think we'd be getting raped by trading Steve and Cat for T-mac alone. I just remember how we could have waited another year for Barkley to be a FA rather than giving up Casell and Horry. Then until Francis we could never find a good PG. Had we waited that extra year....maybe Barkley would have got his ring. However, it is a risk that T-mac goes somewhere else for a year and falls in love. But i still feel if T-mac says he wants to play in Houston or he'll opt out next year, there's no reason why we need to throw in Mobley into the deal. Were offering one All Star for another. Whenever a player forces a trade, it's rare that team gets equal value in return. I think Francis is a good enough return for the Magic, especially since he's locked up for awhile.
Hmm, I'll let Game 3 of the NBA Finals do most of the talking for Hamilton. He outplayed Kobe. So far, he has been either as good or slightly better than Kobe. Mobley did a great job, but he wasn't able to match Kobe. Hamilton has one of the, if not THE, quickest first steps in the league. I don't understand how you're saying he's slow. Also, Hamilton is younger than Mobley. This is his big year, he's making a star out of himself in the NBA Finals. Look at his assist and steal numbers this year, look at his numbers in the playoffs especially. It's safe to say that Mobley is a betetr defender than Rip, and it's possible he's a better 3-pt shooter. But a closer look at his FGA will tell you that Rip doesn't take many simply because he doesn't need to - he can get by his man with incredible ease. He drains the mid-range J beautifully. Hamilton shoots a better percentage from the field, and is only .2 ppg behind Mobley for his career. The difference is, MObley does it in 37.5 minutes per game, but Hamilton does it in just under 31 minutes. Safe to say, Hamilton has been a better scorer for his career, and this last season, he made a tremendous leap. Now for Iverson. You keep talking about the NOW and what can they do NOW. Did you know Iverson is just 3 months older than Mobley? What makes you say Mobley will improve but Iverson's done? I'll admit that Iverson had a horrible season, but that's the point - it was below his standards. If you had to pick between the two, I refuse to believe you'd pick Mobley. What can they offer? Do you know how much defensive attention Iverson requires? Do you know how much that would free up Yao? The best player Iverson has ever played with is probably Glen Robinson - and that's just for half a season. Mobley shot 43% for his career, and Iverson shot 41.7%. The difference? Mobley shoots 14 times per game, while Iverson shoot it 23 times. As for their last year, it's probably the only year you can make a case for Mobley. But it's an unfair comparison - Iverson played 48 games on a horrible team and was injured in most of those 48 games as well. We're talking about Allen Iverson man. If he's so deteriorated, why is he still on the All Star team? How come the U.S. still wants him to play for them? How come the Sixers were still in the playoff chase despite Robsinon missing almost the whole season, and thier next best player being Kenny Thomas? Come on man. If you're going to argue that Mobley is better than Iverson beyond this post, I'm afraid I'm going to have to bow out of that one.
Oh, and one more thing. Vince Carter apparenlty kicked the whole U.S. team's butts one-on-one during the last tournament. Literally, he took them all on one-on-one, and took Kevin Garnett out with ease in a final one-on-one matchup. (source: MacBeth) So does that mean you pick Vince Carter over everyone, namely, KG? You can't judge a player's standing relative to the league based on one matchup. Just because Vince Carter can beat everyone in the league one-on-one doesn't mean he's the best player in the league or at his position. Sure I mentioned that Rip is outplaying Kobe. But that was just in response to you saying Mobley played well against Kobe.
The All Star game is a popularity contest and the EC is pretty weak. The US Nat'l. Team doesn't have to pay Iverson $91m over the next 4 years. Seasonal stats aside, Hamilton is clearly better than Cat when the lights are shining their brightest. Iverson is better but for how long and at what price (monetarily and psychologically).
So you wouldn't be happy if we traded Mobley and the TE for Iverson? Ofcourse, this is assuming CD wants to keep Iverson for now. We'd have a small backcourt, Iverson doesn't fit in.. etc... But overall, would you really be unhappy with that? Yes, it will kill our cap. But don't Spoon and Cato both come off the cap before Yao Ming's extension kicks in? At which point, Iverson will be in his last season, right? Making him a tradeable asset? At this point in time, I'd rather pay Iverson his MAX contract than Mobley his 6M. I think Iverson still has somethignto prove after his last season, and we'll see that next season now that he's got an extended rest and he will be healthy.
I am all for keeping cuttino in a rockets uniform. He is a great slasher who can take anyone off the dribble or step back and hit a jumper. He plays great Defense especially considering night in and night out he goes against someone taller than him. And some people have seem to forgotten that SG stands for SHOOTING guard not pass the ball to Yao all the d*mn time. It is mobley's job to score not to pass all the time. You people ain't happy unless Yao scores half the teams points. Yao will eventually get over 20 ppg but the other 60-70 points got to come from other players and cuttino is good for 20. What the rockets really need to do is get rid of Kelvin Cato(worst hands in nba and can't shoot worth crap) and Steve Francis(great player, bad fit). We need a point guard who understands that its his job to pass not score all the time and everyone knows about the PF position. We could also use another small foward who is taller than jj maybe even just use boki so they can see over the defense and get the ball to Yao for his touches because typically you want your post feeder to be a 3.
List of players as good or better than X.......2003/2004 Salary Doug Christie $6,500,000 Richad Hamilton $6,500,000 Corey Maggette $5,475,556 Brent Barry $5,400,000 Matt Harpring $4,545,000 James Posey $4,906,500 Bobby Jackson $2,925,000 Jason Richardson $2,696,303 Joe Johnson $1,850,160 Quentin Richardson $1,805,735 Mikael Pietrus $ 1,661,280 Ronald "Flip" Murray $563,679 Mind you that this is a just a quick work not an exhaustive one. The issue this list is supposed to address is a subjective one and could amount to pages and pages of debate. But one thing is clear - all the players listed are in the periphery of Mobley's ability. Though there are some rookie contract included, non of them is likely to command more than $6M when they resign or sign new contracts (that is when I included them).
