hey SirSir, Original Sin = Adam and Eve screwed up, disobeyed God. We lost our immortality, cast out from Paradise etc. because of it Why do we need Jesus to die for us? because it was God's own rules that someone needed to take away the sins of mankind in order for us to get back into paradise, since we are not allowed in if we have even a speck of sin. Since humans are born into sin, he found a loophole through his own rules and had Jesus (in the form of a human) do it for us. The Jews had a ritual in which they symbolically put all their sins onto a goat and then either killed him or pushed him down a ravine. This would the origin of the "scapegoat". I am not sure about the righteous man thing, but I do know there is a legend in some Judaic sects where there have to be 36 righteous men on earth, and that if there aren't then the world will end. From the usage of the word righteous in both my paragraphs, I do want to stress there is a difference between a righteous person and perfect person (which Jesus was)
Here is the thing. Let me preface this because I think I am not the best communicator on this. I don't feel like it is a slam at all. I appreciate honest questions. I can only answer to the best of my very limited ability. It is hard for me to answer because religion is mostly very personal. When I write about it, it often comes off as sounding new-age-like, or some crap like that. I hate that stuff and it isn't at all what I am trying to get at, but it often comes across as such. I was unclear. I didn't mean for man to forgive god, but for man to be forgiven by god. But that is only part of it. My emphasis was on man following Christ's example, and forgiving each other. It is about not judging since only God can judge the soul. Man should believe in certain things, and try and hold to those things, but man shouldn't force others into those same beliefs, nor judge someone who holds different beliefs. Man should also not throw a stumbling block into someone else's beliefs. Christ's sacrifice did take the sin for humanity, but the real miracle is in Christ rising from the dead. Whether literally or figuratively his death caused his message to spread. It is much like a rock musician or artist who dies too young, thereby has his music take on a life of its own and grow to portions that it never achieved during that person's life. In a very pratical almost callous way, that is why Jesus had to die. His sacrifice was for everyone, but it doesn't detract or erase the purpose of his message. Because he died and we are all forgiven, doesn't mean man shouldn't follow the instruction to turn the other cheek, etc. Jesus died so that message could live on. We aren't perfect and that message needs to live on, because people keep not following it. So it isn't about forgiving God, it is about God forgiving people, as well as people forgiving each other. God sets the example, and man should strive to follow it. I know it is hard to tell from these writings, but I spend a lot of time thinking about this stuff, and almost never talk about it with others unless they ask, so years of ramblings and changes to my thinking, probably make it come out sounding confusing, and like so much babble.
Sishir -- if you're truly interested in this topic, pick up Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. He addresses all of this stuff in a very effective way.
It does and it certainly helps me understand the Christian viewpoint in regard to that knowledge of good and evil sets man up to be God. That does raise some questions in my mind regarding the role of free will but I will ask those in another thread to not pull this one futher off the track than it is already.
Howabout I come and preach a sermon at your church and you can come and give a dharma talk at the Zen Center.
I'll look into but honestly I find discussing this on the D & D much more interesting than reading it from a book. I find the give and take of the discussion is more insightful.
i went to a buddhist temple about 9 months ago or so now and spent a few hours talking to a monk there. fascinating stuff. he was very kind.
Deal. I know you're not from the Houston area so we will need to work on this plan. I would be honored to give a dharma talk, but you will have to explain what that is. thanks for the invite, please let's try to make this happen. I would love for you to meet the folks at our church.
once you've read the bible and get the gist of the message, isn't it unnecessary to keep on reading it? i mean, it's not that entertaining. if serious moral tomes are your thing, why not move on to other sacred texts? that would be evolutionary, no?
i've read the christmas carol probably 15 times in my life. i find there's something new there every time. but i'm sure it's not really something new. i'm just a different person in some sense every time i read it...so it speaks to me differently each time. the bible is that x1000, in my experience. and reading the bible doesn't mean i haven't read other religion's sacred texts. i've read about a quarter of the Koran, for instance.
You've called my bluff exposed me. I have too much respect for the decency and sanctity of your Church to preach a sermon although I may be qualified and knowledgeable enough to call out bingo numbers. Well pwned sir. Well pwned. As for a dharma talk it is essentially like a sermon except that you have to sit cross legged on a cushion while delivering it.
yes, i get how nuances can be gleaned from works revisited, but the bible is pretty boring isn't it? i mean, i'd probably rather read people magazine.
Nice post hotballa. Here is some recent DNA info: http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/ingman.html Molecular anthropologists have been making some great strides.
I find the Bible fascinating, and I'm not religious in any sense of the word. Everytime I get a hotel room, I steal the Bible. Well, except when my friends won't let me.
More I think about it I think a church could use a good sermon through the eyes of a non-Christian. And I'm also sure I've long ago ruined the 'decency and sanctity' of our church. Actually I would learn more by sitting cross legged and listening, so if God wants this to happen - maybe I can come and learn something. I'm not much of a traveller so don't worry too much about me showing up.
